When I drove by, I couldn't believe it.

The ward house (home of the SL 13th ward) on 375 E. 100 S. in downtown SLC is being turned into an American Cancer Society Hope Lodge. http://www.hopelodgeutah.org/

Maybe it wasn't sold. Maybe it wasn't donated. But wouldn't that be a little shocking for a downtown location?? It would be a little hard to believe they would give up that property.

Anyone have insider info?

A couple of things. The demographics of Salt Lake City are less and less LDS. Consolidation is reasonable there. There has been similar consolidation of stakes and wards all along the Bench areas, from the Avenues to Sandy. These are older well established neighborhoods now that have a steady population with a more consistent distribution of youth, middle age, elderly people. So there isn't the need for a dense amount of buildings. BUt there is a boom in buildings in Herriman, South Jordan, Saratoga and so on. This is where the young LDS with their many kids are buying property. It's cheaper there and they can get a big house for a 1/4 of what a comparable home would cost in established "good" neighborhoods.

Second, these chapel buildings are old. Pre- 1980s. They are expensive to maintain with poor energy profiles. They are expensive to upgrade. Most will not easily conform to the ADA laws for accessibility. Generally, the old buildings are being sold off or torn down and replaced with more modern chapels rather than deal with them for their architectural interest and quirks. If you drive around downtown, you'll see a number of interesting old LDS churches that are now in the hands of other religions and groups.

They sell ward houses often. When neighborhood demographics shift and a building is old, when there's not enough parking, they'll sell. The ward house I grew up in on the east coast was going to be sold, but the locals, including some LDS royalty, pressured the brethren to save and renovate it instead. There's still no parking, but...

Saw it happen in Southern Alberta, years ago. The original church is now a community hall. That was while the church was in growth. The building is old, there was land elsewhere.

Are you in Raymond

Oh dammit, and here I thought it was a dramatic sign of demise. Sigh.

spicyspirit Wrote:
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> Oh dammit, and here I thought it was a dramatic
> sign of demise. Sigh.

Actually, it may be a sign of demise. You may be right.

I hate to burst everyone's bubble but the thirteenth ward building has been on the chopping block for years. It does not meet seismic standards and is not as handicap accessible as it should be.

There are repurposed LDS meetinghouses all over the Salt Lake Valley. TSCC bought so much land years ago when land was cheap that it is probably cheaper to build a new building than to renovate an existing building.

West Valley City is losing wards as the population becomes increasingly diverse. I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the older buildings be sold and not replaced.

Old ward houses get sold all the time. I saw one that was a carpet store or some such in Driggs, ID, of all places. That surprised me. The building had been de-churchified, but the roof line and window placement were 1960 era concrete block LDS rambler.

Salt Lake Acting Company theater is an former ward building from the 1890s.

Considering some of the great irreverent work Salt Lake Acting Company does, I think this is the best of all possible re-uses!

To add to what everyone else has said, a ward building closing in a city like SLC, isn't necessarily a matter of the Morg losing members. It could just be that members are moving out of that area while non-members are moving in. There are a LOT of non-Mormons moving into Utah and many of them, particularly the younger ones, move to the downtown area diluting the original Mormon population.

It might be a case of the ward becoming older, and their kids all move out of the ward to attend a ward in the burbs. Once the older people start dying off, they redraw the boundaries, and have the members of the shrinking ward attend a different ward, then sell off the old building.

Either way, its a good sign for those of us ex-Mormons living in that area because we get a little more diversity with less Morgbot control.

or have been torn down. The number going up far exceeds the number sold or torn down. You can't go more than a few blocks around here without seeing one--let alone the blocks that contain 2 or more. Out by the hospital in Logan--I believe there are at least 4 within 2 blocks--back to back. That doesn't count the ones only a block or so away from those 4. This has been going on for a long, long time. Drive through Deweyville, Mantua, and other small towns around Northern Utah and some of their old chapels have been turned into HOMES.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2013 03:15PM by cl2.

Now that makes me perk up. I would love to see one of these old chapels turned into homes and see what things people did with them!

The real indicator is the net number of church building and the trends related to that.

I drove by and old chapel in Idaho years ago that was converted to a masonic lodge.

... was the meeting house in Berkley California -- sold to some non-denomination christian church and then they went under and the building quickly became the Hari-Krishna center, complete with ORANGE lions out front.

I was a MUST SEE for EVERY missionary in the California Oakland mission in my day.

I am in Oakland -- where is this? I'd love to see it!

Ana

I couldn't even begin to remember exactly where ... but it was very close to the University. I do have an old photo buried at home, maybe I'll dig it up and scan and post it.

The (light tan) church was VERY mormony and there was no mistaking its origin. The installed orange beasts were very elaborate and about 7 feet tall.

I grew up in the taylorsville area of the Salt Lake Valley and have seen several ward houses I attended as a child get sold off to other people over the last 25 years. Its not and never has been uncommon for the church to do this. of course the really old ward houses were often built with money and labor by the local wards themselves so its pure profit for the cult to sell those older buildings. They never invested a cent in many of them.

Construction is a very easy way to launder money. Who audits how much the supplies/labor really cost? Kickbacks are an expected and accepted way of life in this business. The Big Dig is 20 years into a 40 year lifespan with estimated costs over $22 Billion.

LDS Inc has been doing this for decades with their ward houses, stake centers and temples...the Jesus Mall and Conference Center were the same thing on a grand scale.

You just know those old farts would love to tear down the COB and build something nicer for themselves, but can't quite bring themselves to go all Megachurch.

Let's hope not, a church that still act's like it's in the fifties needs a HQ that looks like it was designed in the 50's.

Money is "laundered" to hide its source or to evade taxes, usually both.

Taking extra money that is *already* tax free, and funneling it to construction companies, thereby making it taxable as income to those construction companies, strikes me as counterproductive, if not just plain stupid. Further, they don't have to hide where their money comes from, unless they are running a drug or smuggling operation on the side.

They could have inflated the costs for the Conf Center, or City Creek, which would lower their tax liability, since they can deduct the construction costs as business expenses, at least for City Creek. But that increases the tax liability of the construction companies.

I wonder if they can deduct the building expenses of church buildings? I suspect not, since the church income is not taxable in the first place. If they can deduct church expenses from their for-profit companies' income, then yes, they are lowering their tax bill. But still, whoever received that money will have to pay taxes on it. That is a very short and simple transaction chain for the IRS to follow.

Ok, you are correct. The more accurate term is "funneling." They funnel tithing dollars to their favored construction companies and suppliers who in turn over-inflate expenses (labor cost is the obvious/easiest) so it's a win for both.

Church leaders pick and choose which companies make huge profits (and kick $$ back to GA accounts outside the prying eyes of church accountants) and the companies enjoy massive margins and tax deductions.

I'm sure the GA's kickbacks come in the form of Executive Board memberships/salaries, "donations", no payback loans, premier land/lots, etc.

Seminary teachers don't live in mansions.

Nothing special my former Ward building was sold and is now being used as a synagogue. I was told that several older Ward buildings and Stake centers were being sold and replaced with more up to date facilities.

Smirk.

It would be even more appropriate if they sold it to a proctologist.

Nothing like this is happening in my part of Idaho!

My salt lake central city wardhouse was sold long ago along with a couple of other wardhouses in the stake.

Squeebee are you talking about the community hall in Cardston? I remember going there for church when I was little

My nephew and family bought a church house in Idaho and lived in it for several years. The cloakroom became the living room, the cultural hall became an inside play ground during severe winters for their kids (they could ride bikes, etc.). The bathrooms were plentiful,the kitchen remained the kitchen. The chapel was not much used, to costly to heat.

Amazing! I bet each bedroom had a chalkboard! I wonder about a shower, however.

When a MORmON temple is finally sold off, THAT is what I want to hear about.

The Ogden temple was actually demolished and rebuilt in a clever fashion, including a lot more expense over just knocking it down and starting over, that permitted / allowed LDS Inc. to refer to the task as a "remodel". LDS INC. still has way too much money, if they are doing this kind of stuff. Hopefully that will come to an end very soon.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2013 03:01AM by lucky.

The LDS church has been selling off chapels for decades, though. Some chapels can't be remodeled or built onto, so they have to go. This happened to DW's ward back in the 1970s, and they moved out and into an old Montgomery Ward building on Main St., which they occupied a couple of years until the new building was built. All the old people had to die off before the bad feelings and blame-game stopped about who was responsible for selling the building.

There is an old ward building on the main drag in Midvale, UT, that I used to attend. It was beautiful, and had a pit-style chapel and stained glass windows. The church sold it, and it now has a gold dome on top and may be some Orthodox church. Same with a beautiful church off 700N in SLC.

Many were sold off because they church seemed to actually want to replace the old buildings with the new broad-roofed "McChapel" seen first all over Utah and Idaho, and is now seen even here in Georgia. But some of the ones built in the 1940s and 1950s on the old ward budget system and so on were beautiful and classy, and I get this feeling that it is merely part of the correlatin program to do away with individualism everywhere it is found.

The LDS church realy has a problem with crappy architects. They should all be fired.

A few years ago in my neighborhood there was a wardhouse either sold off or donated but it is now a public park. It now has a much better use than it did before. And down the street another wardhouse was slated for retrofitting a wing at a time. Then one day I drove by and it was torn down. The empty lot looks like they are ready to build another building but the lot has been empty for months. I am hoping the lot is put to good use instead of another wardhouse. The really good part of its demolition is my dad can no longer drive past it and tell me about his cousin. Every time he had to tell me that his cousin laid every brick on the exterior....right before he went crazy. It drove me....crazy.