I'm a distressed grandma. I discovered J.Smith was not a nice person. I'm trying to resign but my bishop threatened that I will lose the Gift of the Holy Ghost if I resign. Why does that hurt me? Help!

It hurts because this guy is putting the institution above the individual. The priesthood is carefully trained, although they don't generally recognize it, to be "company" men. You are getting your first taste of corporate insensitivity. Hurts, doesn't it.

The Gift of the Holy Ghost is nothing more than your own sense of conscience. Nobody can take that away from you. If you believe in a kind and loving god who knows you inside and out, he should know you well enough to judge the intentions of your heart. You leaving the church will not change god one wit. LDS, Inc. is very good at using guilt and fear to keep members in line. You find, like most of us here, that after you leave the church you will learn to feel guilt free and less fearful about almost everything. Don't let this guy intimidate you. You can resign through the Church Office Building in SLC without even having to talk to your bishop and we will show you how. Best wishes on your journey towards truth. We welcome you here.

Hey, grandma. As a fellow grandparent, I am telling you that you should avoid speaking with the local bishop and resign directly with Confidential Records in SLC (see instructions on this site).

As far as the Gift of the HG goes, it is as make-believe as your bishop's magical powers, so don't worry about it none. If you have strong Christian beliefs, go that route and explore what they teach about the HG, instead. You will find that you are just fine.

You will remain tickety-boo without the church, so no worries.

Here are the instructions:
http://www.exmormon.org/remove.htm

I emailed my resignation in on July 9th of this year and got my stupid letter 5 days later saying it would be referred to the bishop. The bishop stopped by another 5 days later and asked if I wished to be removed and I happily said, "Yes, please!". The end.

Those never baptized have conscience and intuition, the church calls it the gift of the Holy Ghost but that is just branding.

Being free from the LDS church you may find that your gifts of intuition from Spirit become stronger.

Grandma, what does that still small voice tell you about the fear you felt from what the bishop said?

If one is to believe in god and all that. The holy spirit is in-dwelling within each and every human being. (I personally no longer buy any of it.) Therefore, a Gramma with the gift of the Holy Ghost is like a Pope without a pogo stick.

That should have been, "a Pope without a pogo stick." but I guess it works either way.

Good suggestions. I want to clarify that I already emailed my resignation. A letter from SLC sent to my Stake Prez informed me that it must be finalized with my bishop. We have met twice and I'm not done. But am I already resigned? Does anyone know?

You were resigned the moment SLC got the letter, the rest is a stall to try and get you back.

The LDS church wants you to think they still have a final say in your resignation. They don't.

Everything they do from here on out is an attempt to guilt you into returning and to pretend they have authority over you. They don't.

Met with them twice already? Seems they may be trying to intimidate you. Are they about to lose a lot of tithing money?

You are most assuredly resigned. As long as you have that letter that says they received your letter you even have proof. A legal precedent was set years ago that says you have the Constitutional right to join any church and, therefore, leave any church at any time you so desire. As soon as they received your resignation letter you were legally out. There is nothing more you need to do because notification from them that they received your letter is all you need. It's extra special nice to get the letter from them that you have had your name "removed" from the member data base and moved to the ex-member data base but that is their own record keeping procedure and has nothing to do with your status of being resigned. Some bishops and stake presidents will send you the form letter immediately, some will drag their feet to exercise their "Power and Authority" and some will need a kick in the backside from headquarters in SLC but you are guaranteed out just as you are now. If you want to get things moving faster just call SLC and tell them you are getting flack from your Stake President and you want things finalized NOW! Your stake pres. will get a call from SLC and that will get things moving. You should never have had to have two meeting with the Stake President unless you are changing your mind about resigning or showing hesitancy.

As was stated, you were legally and officially resigned from the church the moment they read your initial letter telling them that you were done. Everything else is paperwork and busy work on their end.

The fact that they are trying to intimidate a self described "grandma" into remaining a member is despicable. There was no need for any meeting. One short discussion to confirm that you are who you say you are and confirm that you want to resign might have been understandable, but to try and scare you with threats of losing divine gifts is a unforgivable.

You asked why this hurts you. It's because you have been trained from the moment you stepped in an LDS church building that they have real and actual power over you. They have become so good at it that they believe it themselves and it perpetuates through their entire religion. The truth is that they don't. I don't know if you believe in God or not, if you do, do you really think that he would deny you any of his blessings for removing yourself from a church started by a man like Joseph Smith? No all loving creature would do that.

I suggest no further contact with that man. You can and probably should contact the Membership records department. I would call them directly. Let them know that the Bishop of the local ward (Note, he's no longer "YOUR" bishop, no need to call him such) is not only NOT processing your paperwork, but is harassing you and you want it to stop. Let them know that you want your paperwork processed a soon as possible and will accept no further contact from that Bishop. If you feel so inclined, you could suggest that you might contact a lawyer or the media (I would imagine that your local media would love to have a story on how the LDS church is harassing a grandma to keep them a member, to pay tithing and eventually sign her estate over to the church)

Contact information for the Membership office is:

Member Records Division, LDS Church
50 E North Temple Rm 1372
SLC UT 84150-5310

801-240-2053 - Phone
801-240-1565 - Fax
1-800-453-3860 ext 22053 - Toll Free

See: http://www.exmormon.org/remove.htm for more information.

BTW, congratulations! You are discovering your freedom!

Tscc does not own or control the Holy Ghost. Not your bishop nor anyone in tscc can take the Advocate away from you. In fact no one can.
(atheists hide your eyes now)
John 14:15-17
(Christ says) "If you love me you will keep my commandments. And I will ask the Father and He will give you another Helper to be with you forever, the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him because it neither sees nor knows Him. You know Him for He dwells with you and will be in you."
It might be useful to you to know that Catholics, Lutherans, and Episcopalians practice confirmation and have for centuries before Joseph smith was even born, with the laying on of hands and receiving the Holy Spirit.
Welcome to worshipping "in spirit and truth" for a change!

I have never been through the process. Thank God I never had the need. However;

Once you hit send, you were resigned. When the local people claim a need for additional procedure, they are just trying to rope you in again. You are free. There is no need to obey their silly rules, and there never was.

Legally, as soon as your resignation e-mail was read in SLC you were no longer a member. The letter from SLC to your Stake President proves that they received your resignation.

Call the membership records office in SLC. Tell them that you will contact a lawyer and the media if your request is not processed immediately.

He's threatening you. No different than a mob guy who says "pay up and do what I say or suffer the consequences." Can you really picture Jesus acting like a mob boss? Or asking his "servant" to act like a mob boss?

You will still have the Holy Ghost with you - that is God's gift to you. Call it intuition, conscience, the Spirit whatever but everyone has it to some extent. The idea Mormons have a special claim on heavenly help is one of the most outrageous lies they tell. I've found people in all religions have exactly the same spiritual experiences Mormons do. Mormons have NOTHING special. Don't let them scare you with claims they have something no one else has and their threats to take it away from you. I still get prompted and hear what Mormons call the "still, small voice." If anything, I hear it more because there aren't bishops, rules and guilt standing between me and what is right any more. Don't let them scare you.

Sounds like the bishop is taking advantage of your guilt. He's trying to use it to keep you meeting with him so he can talk you out of your resignation. You do NOT have to meet with him. Tell him that. Next time he asks you to come in, just say, "no thanks, im done with these meetings. Pleas make sure the paper work on my resignation is done. You can just send me a letter to confirm it. Goodbye." They have no authority over you, and you dont have to follow their made up rules.

Your Bishop is threatening to take something from you that you have always owned all by yourself: Your identity -- that is, your inner sense of of who you are and what you must do with your life.

Mormonism put a strange new name on it and pretended that because they were the ones that gave it to you -- they are the ones who can take it away from you.

That's a horrid lie!

YOU own who you really are - not them!

This has always been so. No one on earth can ever stand between you and your personal feelings toward life, and God!

I hope these messages have brought a little more peace to you.

Pretty soon you'll begin to see that the church doesn't have the Holy Ghost to give or take away. It is your gift at birth.

Holy Ghost, aka intuition, higher mind, inner-knowing, spirit guide, conscience, gut feeling, sixth sense, etc.

You know,these people are like the mob. They strong arm and intimidate anyone, at anytime, and try to retain control at all costs. Sad to hear you are being bullied by the cult. Must want the tithing revenue they will lose when you get away from there nonsense more than respecting your wish to be free and move on. You know, A lawyer, or threat of one will make these bastards produce a fast conformation of your wishes a reality quicker than you can say "In'a Name Of J.C., Amen"

Why should you meet with a representative of a church you no longer belong to?

You don't need permission or approval to leave the church. You've already left. Their rules, meetings, threats, demands are not your problem anymore.

Stop meeting with the bishop. You'll be fine.

Best wishes to you!

Thank you all for your support!!! I should have written in sooner. I have almost no other support for this direction I'm taking. I will add that my TBM husband whom I love is having a hard time with my "falling away from the church". He attended my last meeting with the bishop (with my approval) and is feeling extremely sad. So are my children and siblings, the only other TBM relatives I've told. The pressure is unbelievable. I've fought depression since I stopped believing two years ago. But it's simple. My conscience won't allow me to support the LDS church anymore. Not with tithing and despite my temple vows.

It is incredibly difficult to do this type of thing alone. The good news is that you aren't alone in this. Hundreds of people have resigned from the church. Many of them in your position of having found out the actual truth and the rest of your family not being able to accept it.

Being in a mixed faith marriage can be difficult, but it can work. Remember that you have every right to expect respect for your views if they expect respect for theirs. Remind anyone who tries to make you feel bad for your beliefs that they should re-read the 11th Article of Faith:

"We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."

Please keep posting here, it's a place to vent when things get hard, get advice when you are confused and don't know what to do, joke when things are just plain silly, and get support when things get too difficult.

BTW, Good for you for sticking with your conscience and not supporting an organization that you no longer agree with. (Remember, your temple vows were broken by them first, not by you, they didn't keep up their end of the bargain. It's better for you to be true to yourself and your values than stick to a "vow" that the other party never intended on keeping.)

It's just my two cents, but Mormonism can't give you anything any other religion can.
Well, except maybe Islam because they don't have the concept of the holy ghost/spirit anyway.
My point is, you are not losing anything, no matter what your bishop says, and I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that if you went to any other pastor in any other faith, they'd be absolutely mortified by what your bishop is doing, even though it is basically par for the course in Mormonism.
The LDS church offers you absolutely nothing that you can't get from any Christian denomination, so it's not like they have the market cornered on salvation.

I'm also the only one in my family to leave, so I definitely feel your pain there. It'll be tough, but you'll make it through. Good luck sweetheart!

I just want to say that leaving the church takes a lot of guts and bravery sometimes! Just want to let you know that I think you're very brave and gutsy!

I’m going to recommend trying to learn to trust yourself more and do what you can to find and make new friends outside of the church ASAP. I’m hoping too that your husband will come around. My husband did! You are a pioneer and leading the way to a new life!

This realization may still be "down the road" a bit for you. But it may help to hear it from me, a 53 year old man, a father, a husband, an engineer....the guy has no influence over you now or in any "world to come". The "spirit" is simply emotions that we feel when sensative subjects are brought up, like "forever families" and such. We all love our families and have emotional feelings for them. Disingenious people and organizations will use those feelings and tell you that they are "the spirit". They are just tender (and appropriatly tender) feelings you have for loved ones. Leaving the church will still leave you capable of feeling emotions of love and such, the only difference is that you will recognize them as such rather than "the spirit". You're fine and you are going to be fine. Peace.

Congratulations on you resignation. I don't know your bishop, so I don't know what his motivation is. He may actually think that he is helping you. Even if he is concerned for you, he is probably also concerned about what the ward will think when an older sister leaves the church. The idea that you will lose the Holy Ghost if you leave is as phony as Joseph Smith. If you decide to remain a Christian, you will still call those feelings The Holy Ghost, if you choose a different path, those feelings will have a different name. Regardless of your journey, you will still have the same warm feelings when you hear beautiful music, hear an inspirational speaker, see a lovely sunset. You will still know the difference between right and wrong and you will get spontaneous urges to do nice things for people. In other words, you will still be you. If you loose anything it will be your naivet'e.

As others have stated, you are already resigned. If you are contacted again tell them to send their letter immediately and you want no more contact with anyone as long as they are representing the church. After a cooling off period, you will be happy to associate with them as neighbors, as long as they respect your choices and acknowledge that where religion is concerned you have boundaries.

Be brave, you're going to be fine.

This bishop is playing mind games with you.

Cults are easy to join but hard to get out of.

Just resign via registered mail by sending your letter to Salt Lake HQ

Oh, and stop talking to Mormons.

Joseph Smith had the Gift of the HG. Plus he got to hobnob with the Big Guy himself. Fat lot of good it did him. He was still a creep.

Hinckley's Gift of the HG wasn't worth a bucket of warm spit either when it came to not being deceived by Mark Hofmann.

You aren't losing anything of value.

Why don't you prove to yourself he's wrong?

Get a book on intuition. Most of them have exercises and tests you can do yourself. This really worked for me and was one of my first big clues that my own feminine wisdom and my conscience were the source of "promptings", not a ghost.

I'd like to add that the people you are talking to--your bishop and your family-- don't seem to be researching the information you have provided. You have told them the truth about conman Joseph Smith's character. Be assured, grandma, they have heard it before.

They don't care!

But you do. They are supposed to have not only the power of the Holy Spirit but also the keys of the HOly Priesthood and the authority over you as your spiritual heads.

And they don't care whether something is true or not.

Clearly, the person in the room with integrity is you. And it did not come from the same Holy Spirit that they have telling them that truth does not matter.

You are absolutely doing the right thing, the honorable thing and we are all 100% behind you.

Hugs

Anagrammy

Just a note about your temple vows. One of the things that pushed me hardest about wanting to officially resign from the church was the realization that the last thing they demand from us in the temple, if you remember, is to give all that you have, your life, your talents, your money, everything you own or will ever own in the future to the CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS.(You might also notice that the volume goes up significantly during this part) Think about this for a minute. You covenanted to give your whole life, physical and financial, to a CORPORATION, not to God. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a corporation (literally and legally known as "The Corporation of the President"). If I had vowed to give all I had to God I would not have felt so stupid and filthy after making that vow. But a corporation? That is just plain evil. When it finally struck me what I had done I could not wait to get the letter that said I was losing the blessings of the temple. Who, in their right mind, wants to be owned body and soul by a corporation? So, please don't have any worries about having taken temple vows and about losing them. You are married to your husband by your marriage certificate and by your choice to be with him, not by your temple vows. And if your husband and family are worried about losing you in the eternities just ask them what kind of a god would separate people who love each other selflessly simply because they didn't go through a temple ceremony that was devised by an adulterer, liar, and scam artist? I think, if you believe in a god, that he should be far greater, far more loving, forgiving, and far more powerful than a man like Joseph Smith.

I'm sorry that your whole family is so entrenched in Mormonism. I certainly hope that as you grow stronger and happier outside the Mormon mindset that your family may someday recognize the light that has come into your life and choose to follow you out. it may not happen but there is always hope. Hang in there and fight. You and your family are worth it. I also hope that as you go through the stages of grief you will soon lose the depression and move on to the anger stage. It is more motivational until you get to the acceptance phase. There you will find more peace. All the very best to you.

You are no longer a Mormon because they received the letter you sent in. You are done now.

IMO, there is as little evidence that the "gift of the Holy Ghost" exists as there is that Nephites exist. Which makes his "threat" rather absurd.

Its a bit like a little child saying, "You better be friends with me, or I won't let you ride my flying unicorn."

remember 2 things.

1) you are going to a car salesman to ask him if you need a new car. He is there to sell cars.

2) He will threaten and take away all the imaginary things that mormonism "bestows" upon people. None of these things are real. Sealings, kingdoms, ghosts, powers, resurrections, mantles, callings. There is no Holy Ghost, there is the confirmation bias, its a mind trick, don't fall for it.

You are an adult with the right to do whatever you want. Don't go to some uninspired wizard wannabe neighbor for guidance about things that don't exists.