It's hard for mormons to see the systemic cultishness in their church.

They might say it isn't a cult because tithes are only 10% and not 100% when there' no rule that cults take 100% of anyone's income and when the morg does take all of a missionary's earning power for the years he's in the field.

They might say it isn't a cult because cults make followers work 100 hours a week and sleep only three hours a night. I remember Steve Hassan at an exmo conference saing he worked that much in the Moonies and nodded off at the wheel after sleeping only two or three hours the night before. He didn't say that all Moonies worked that much or slept so little. He was a Moonie leader who wanted to strive for perfection.

Mormons might say they're not a cult because only some mormons wear garments, or because their dietary restrictions are minimal, or their ward parties are fun. Mormons might say they're not a cult because of their size, their family friendly image, their kindly leaders, their freedoms, or their outreach programs. But everything they say is likely true of other cults to some extent or another and no cult typically thinks of itself that way. I've never heard mainstream churches claiming that they're not cults because these members don't feel they must fight off creeping suspicions of cultism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2011 10:09AM by Cheryl.

As a TBM, I denied that the church was a cult. Not because I knew the facts, but because I knew it was true.

Currently, the church doesn't take 100% BUT it is a covenant in the temple to do so if the church requires it of them.

I don't need to go over the reasons why people think it is a cult. It just is. Denying doesn't change anything. They might have some positive (I used that term lightly) points, but it is a cult.

In fact, most members of a cult don't even realize that they are in one, not just LDS.

mormon411 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In fact, most members of a cult don't even realize
> that they are in one, not just LDS.


It didn't become a cult to me until I left. Before I left the church a non-member friend told me that I belonged to a cult. I was so insulted that I asked her to leave. After all I'm intelligent, I'd NEVER join a cult.

Hindsight showed me:-

Cultish....Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged. Church actually teaches some questions are sure to lead you on the road to apostasy. "The Adversary will put forth a thousand truths to get across one lie."

Cultish....Asked to make and promise to keep covenants in the temple before the covenants are presented to you. Reminds me of how as children we would say to each other, "I want you to promise me, cross your heart and hope to die" and your friend or you would promise before you knew what you were promising. Today I would never make a promise until I knew what I was being asked to promise.

Cultish....Have to pay to go to the temple. I never connected the dots while I was active. You must pay to gain entry into The House of the Lord. Can't get a temple recommend unless you pay a full tithe.

Cultish....elitist, we believed we were special, chosen. How many of us said when we met a non-member, "It's too bad they are not a member. She/He is such a nice person and so intelligent."

Nice list...

I would add

Cultish: Being taught that bearing your testimony builds your testimony and that saying the words even if your not feeling them at the time will bring the spirit and confirm their truth. This is the very definition of brain washing.

Cultish: Worthiness interviews with children and teens alone with an adult male asking questions about any heavy petting, masturbation ect...

Cultish: Primary...nuff said

rmw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nice list...
>
> I would add
>
> Cultish: Being taught that bearing your testimony
> builds your testimony and that saying the words
> even if your not feeling them at the time will
> bring the spirit and confirm their truth. This is
> the very definition of brain washing.
>
> Cultish: Worthiness interviews with children and
> teens alone with an adult male asking questions
> about any heavy petting, masturbation ect...
>
> Cultish: Primary...nuff said

…with our experience in other churches. My conclusion:

1. MORMONISM IS A CULT.

2. Other mainstream churches are NOT cults.

All anyone has to do is to Google “cult” and look at a list of characteristics common to a cult. Back when, I looked at three different lists and Mormonism fit ALL of them! HE - LLO! That woke me up!

Other churches I have experienced fit none of them.

I agree that most mainstream churches aren't cults by any stretch of the imagination, but they all started from a cult. There are ridiculous similarities between folks like Jim Jones, David Koresh, Joseph Smith, Warren Jeffs and Paul the Apostle.

It is scary when you think about it.

I like Steve Hassan's BITE model because it allows for a spectrum of experiences. I think it can be argued that not every mormon experiences TSCC as a cult, but many do - especially those who take it seriously as many here did. However, there is no question in my mind that the mission experience qualifies as a cult experience.

Three huge red flags in Moism are:

1) prophet (when ACTING as prophet--who can tell?) is infallible. It's doctrinal that TSCC prez will never lead it "astray." Hard-core indoctrination from toddlerhood.

2) difficulty in leaving. Pressure from other members, family, sometimes co-workers to stay. Non-cult churches just let you walk away and attend at your discretion. TSCC demands your attendance every week and more, keeps your unnecessarily busy with mundane tasks, and chooses which building / time you will attend.

3) promises made in the temple to sacrifice time, talents, money and life are made to THE CORPORATION OF THE CHURCH, not to god or anything worth that promise. This is all hush-hush 'cuz TSCC says it's sacred. It's actually demoralizing and embarrassing.

They don't just preach stuff, but they enforce it through the interview system. That is a shameing experience if you don't do what they want.

They also enforce it through peer pressure. Example a girl might say to her BF, I won't marry you if you don't go on a mission.

There is serious judgmentalism in mormonism, so if you don't live the 1950's lifestyle as promoted by the 15 old guys, then you are looked down on as "less than" and will probably endure boundary crossing comments and questions.

In mormonism you are either in it all the way, or a sinner.

My husband and I finally started watching Mad Men and instantly felt like we were back at church.

If it's not a cult then why am I fighting back fear and anxiety to go back to church after a year of non-attendance, and face the nice, smiling ward members who used to be my friends, just so that I can attend with my wife and kids and be a part of their lives again? All they freaking do at home is talk about prophets, scripture, when to pray, what different youth leaders are talking about, and what activities to go to. We have to plan family time around the effing church activities.

If my oldest son wanted to be a Catholic priest or Baptist minister, I'd say, "Not my cup of tea, but if that's what you want, then I'll help you." But I don't want to pay for a mission or for time at BYU so that my kids will be married off to Mormons and exclude me even more from their lives and the lives of my grandkids. I'll just be some broken, not-to-be-trusted apostate to them unless I cave to the pressure and show humility and go before a bishop and get my temple recommend by going to church regularly, doing everything I'm told to do, and pay 10% of my income so t hat I can ordain my sons to the priesthood, baptize my youngest, and attend weddings in the temple, and go to church and not feel like a HUGE outsider. No, it's not a cult. Why not? Because you can question it, leave it, and still keep your family...not.

Divided family or hypocrisy by staying in to be with family?

DH and I are still searching for how to present our new, non-testimony to our kids in a way that won't have them clinging to the church and in fear for our souls.

A system of worship that centers on a living leader who claims to hold absolute authority from god.

Then ya gots yer spin-offs.

Remember that Moses kid? ... As I recall, he wrote the first five books of the bible. In Exodus, the sequel to Genesis, the "riches to rags" story of the author first appears. In time, Moses receives the word of god (a system of worship) from god hissef (a living leader) who charges Moses to act on a variety of issues in his (god's) name (absolute authority).

The story, of course, cannot be verified, is filled with magic and mysticism (much like Joseph's Myth) and even includes an episode or two of god-ordained infant genocide. Maybe its just me, but I be callin' bulls**t on that bulls**t.

So anyway, after Moses heads to the wild blue younder, his side-kick Joshua takes over and is then followed by a bunch of nick-no-names who eventually get burned-out which opens the door for a few reformist clowns to step-in and change the old ways. As a result, we get a new and improved system of worship that centers on a living leader who claims to hold absolute authority from god. This time, its the son 'o' god hissef!

Oh yeah, and its also full of magic and mysticism and includes yet another episode of god-ordained infant genocide.

So what's the difference between Joseph's cult and that of Moses and JuHEEsus?

No report of god-ordained infant genocide to usher in the story's hero is all I can see.

This is the Gospel according to Timothy ... When it looks like it, acts like it and smells like it, you call it what it is.

Timothy

Oh yeah...I couldn't agree with you more. Either Moses, or perhaps even the people who were using Moses' name for their own gain, was a cult leader. No doubt about it.

...in the same vein, Paul's organization fits the cult model extremely well.

One more defining feature of a cult: You are either completely IN, or you are completely OUT. There is no middle ground. Which is why NOMhood is so hard to deal with.

That's what I think whenever someone posts to say they didn't believe in some morg accepted precept even when they were TBM. It's cultish when it's worth noting that any member of a church would have a contrary opinion. It shows that the 100% thought control is desired and accepted among TBMs.

But among Jews there can be a very wide range of acceptability from Orthodox to atheist.

I asked her how she liked it.
She said "I felt like I was in a cult"

Everyone was superwelcoming, everyone kept coming up to her and touching her shoulder, shaking her hand, leading her off to Relief Society while I went off to Priesthood. Afterward she said "don't ever leave me alone like that again".

At this point she started going back to her own church for a while, and I went with her a couple times, but there was no flashmob or undue attention paid to us.

The Bishop asked me what they could do to help her, and I told him that they were scaring her with all the welcoming and cooing over her and the kids.

It is a cult.

If the church is true, why do they practice thought reform the way cults do?

For me, the way they act when you leave is an indicator of the health of the organization. Not just religion, but with employers too. I think a company can be a lot like a cult, even more so than most religions. The last place I worked at, it didn't matter how good you were or what you did for the company, the minute you left you were a good-for-nothing piece of crap. I can only imagine what they said about me.

With most mainstream churches, you shop around and find a church you like preferably in your neighborhood. If you decide to go to the church across the street instead, it's no big deal. When I left the Mormon church, they started a smear campaign against me. They said my wife only married me to get a green card. They said that I was a closet homosexual and that we have an open marriage. They trespassed on my property and vandalized my house with eggs. We were fairly quiet people at church, and I was surprised at the hostility. I mean, they call ex-Mormons angry and bitter.

This was in Minnesota and of course I told all my non-LDS friends about it. Perhaps another sign of a cult is when all your non-cult friends hug you and tell you how glad they are that you've come out of that weird religion. My ex-wife and I both experienced that.

It really helps to figure this out about TSCC.

I'm always posting the link, since it is a very easy read, hits all the key points. Describes TSCC to a "T".

www.howcultswork.com