Hi everyone,

I'm new to this discussion forum, although I've been reading posts on here for a long time. Thank you for providing such a great place to try and recover from this LDS mess!
Since this is my first post, a very brief background:
I'm a decendant of several key LDS leaders, from the beginning, in Ohio and Nauvoo (will not mention who because I'm still considered Mormon by family and friends = long background story). I worked for the LDS Church for over 12 years and served in multiple ward and stake leadership positions. I was a 'closet doubter', for years, until my wife finally discoverd, on her own, the lies, problems, and stopped enjoying anything about the LDS Church. It has been a huge relief, for the past few years to share this journey with my wife.

In light of Dieter Uchtdorf's talk last weekend, I quickly became frustrated because the issue, for us, is NOT imperfections! It is all out DECEPTION 'in the name of God'. That is foundation stuff, not small issues among lots of 'inspired events'. I've never had issues with imperfections. It is outright deception that is unacceptable from anyone claiming to 'speak for God'.

In doing an internet search, this week, I came across this: https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/086-32-35.pdf

Here's a quick look at some of what it says: "When Clayton took a plural wife on 27 April 1843, it was his first wife’s younger sister, Margaret. Joseph Smith supported Clayton in this marriage, saying, "you have a right to get all you can."
"That next month, Margaret became pregnant and Clayton
sought Joseph Smith’s advice...the Prophet advised Clayton to "just keep her at home and brook it and if they raise trouble about it and bring you before me I will give you an awful scourging and probably cut you off from the church and then I will baptize you and set You ahead as good as ever."

The deception in this one instance is off the charts. And, this is one of MANY instances of deception. So, as for me, I don't need to 'doubt the doubts' as a result of imperfections. I reject deceivers.

Deception is NOT recognizable to the true believer

You are right, and it is all about the deception for me too.

+1

Great first post, redpillswallowed. Welcome out of lurkdom.

Surrender Dorothy Wrote:
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> +1
>
> Great first post, redpillswallowed. Welcome out of
> lurkdom.


Thank you! Lurkdom, ha ha! Living in lurkdom was super helpful when I wasn't ready to say anything. I guess I'm finally ready to share.

Basically they're using propaganda methods to discount critics.

Church leaders make understandable mistakes...and critics are hung up on them and exaggerating them, and cherry-picking them. If they cause you doubt, we'll be patient and wait for you to catch up to those of us who understand, because see, we're the good-guys and everyone has to choose whether to be a good guy or a bad guy. We'll be patient while you choose, and we know you'll choose the right.

No less manipulative than ever.

As long as any of them say they "act in the name of god" we're still dealing with a fraudulent cultish sect.

I totally agree with you.

Most of my family are generational TBMs and also pride themselves in thinking that they are 'think outside the box' type members. You know, the Hugh Nibley complex. As a result, they all praised Uchtdorf's talk and think of it as a glastnost and perestroika, as you say. Only a few of them know that I consider myself an ex-mormon now. Those ones called me, assuming that I would have loved Uchtdorf's talk. They were critical of me for not loving it. In fact, his talk made it clear that there is an 'us vs. them' mentality. The good guy, bad guy stuff you mentioned. Uggghh!

I guess when they say, "the glory of God is intelligence", they view intelligence as ignoring facts, unconditionally forgiving imperfections, and blindly following the 15 without question.

Even if they're acting in the name of God with good intent, and screw it up all the time, anyway (which actually seems to be what is happening with some of them), they should only get so many chances and be let go. Even if they were all acting in the best of faith (they aren't), the Mormon leaders are screwing up their church something awful. It is so dysfunctional now. Oddly enough, the business end of it seems to be running pretty well, no doubt because their legal and financial departments are more professional.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2013 12:58PM by cludgie.

I agree redpills....it is the BIG DECEPTIONS that get people out of TSCC.
I hear some Morgs say "well the people in the church are OK." It is true that many of them are, but the prophets (WHO SPEAK FOR GOD) should not screw up because GOD (according to sources who believe in and write about God) does not screw up.
So when someone says Mark Hoffman was able to fool the big church wigs (for example) because he was such a great actor, that is fine to pull the wool over human eyes, but GOD doesn't miss things that people miss. It all falls aparts with stuff like this example. God (if exists according to the beliefes of many) would NOT let a prophet be deceived and made a fool of. By the way, what did the TBMs and not so great TBMs have to say about Mark Hofmann's ability to fool God basically? I am curious.