Bishop is a friendly guy, and there certainly is no malice in him. However, tbm wife and I were genuinely surprised that when we told him I was out of a job and that our unemployment benefits have been delayed significantly, all he said was, "I'll keep my eyes open."

No attempt to ask how we are doing financially. No mention of church resources, not even the employment specialist.

I expected him to at least say something like, "Please remember you are not alone in this. The church has resources for these types of situations. Don't be afraid to ask for some help if you really need it. You've helped others out with fast offerings your entire life. Don't let your pride get in the way of others helping you."

Despite donating tens of thousands in tithing, thousands in fast offerings, despite giving up two entire years of my life and fifteen thousand dollars on a mission, despite attending church each Sunday for three hours, despite serving in a variety of callings, despite spending the majority of my life sacrificing to build the kingdom of God, in the end, all I'm left with is disillusionment, despair, and of course, an assignment to clean the toilets.

Bishop, you're a good man and a great father to your children. But either you are incredibly naive or the victim of a system that sucks up the resources of its members and then tells them they need to be self reliant before offering any sympathy whatsoever.

Despite donating tens of thousands in tithing, thousands in fast offerings, despite giving up two entire years of my life and fifteen thousand dollars on a mission, despite attending church each Sunday for three hours, despite serving in a variety of callings, despite spending the majority of my life sacrificing to build the kingdom of God, in the end, all I'm left with is disillusionment, despair, and of course, an assignment to clean the toilets.

I'm sure alot of people are asking your bishop for help in a very direct and pointed manner. Your bishop is also probably getting pressure from his stake president to reduce how much money he hands out so he can funnel more money into the stake coffers.

Several former bishops have posted here on how bishops are evaluated on how much money they suck from a ward and can hand over to their stake president.

I would go ahead and ask the bishop for some financial or food help if you feel that you need it. If he refuses, it will give you all the information you need to know about where to put your financial resources in the future.

the ward paid their mortgage for almost a year when he lost his job.

I was in one ward where the bishop doled out payments for a very expensive car despite the member coming from and living with a very rich family. In another ward, the bishop paid the mortgage for a year.

But I have also seen leaders humiliate less well to do members by requiring them to bring in tax returns, bills, etc. before offering help, and requiring members to completely exhaust family help, public assistance, and their own savings before giving any assistance.

Too bad they don't consider that the "exhaustion of the family savings" was happening month-after-month, year-after year when the member was handing over his/her mission-fund money, tithing checks, fast offering checks, and any other contributions he/she pitched in to fulfill and "magnify" callings or for any other reason. Throw in the interest that could have been accumulating on all that money, and I bet that member (and the OP) could get through quite a few months (years, even) of tough economic times.

That's not even counting the time-contributions that could have been used to make additional money or develop ideas that could have been used to make future money, but that's more difficult to quantify as precisely. The money contributions are tangible.

It makes this statement in the letter posted by "Every Member a Janitor" announcing that members will be responsible for cleaning the meetinghouses even more laughable:

"The church has recently made the decision that ALL the cleaning responsibilities will now be done by members of the church. This will free up a significant amount of money to help those in need..."
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,90100,90100#msg-90100

To the OP:
Very sorry about your employment situation, and I hope this experience leads you to investigate the many other ways the church leaders have lied to you and all members. Once you're back on-your-feet, you might want to donate your 10% and any other Morg contributions to an investment fund that actually benefits you and your family.

If they assign you to clean a meetinghouse, you could tell them that you think another family is more in need of the many blessing that will come from performing free janitorial services for the Morg.

Good luck to you and your family.

I hope you find a job soon and are able to move forward.

Best wishes.

When I was faced with the inevitability of a TBM wife who went to the Bishop to tell him she was divorcing me because I no longer believed in the church, I naively sought help from the Bishop to talk some sense into her. During a brief talk with him, he kept asking me what I believed, rather than what was going on between us in our marriage. After the conversation, I pleaded with him to meet with "us" and help us work it out. His response was, "I've gotta go out of town this week but I will pray for you.".


About 6 months later, after being separated, I attended my son's deacon ordination. The Bishop came up to me and asked,"Is there anything we can do for you?" By this time, I had gotten on with my life and was in a most wonderful joyful happy place. I responded, "there's nothing you can help me with."

after the bubble burst.

You no longer are able to give so they really do not have much use for you any longer.

"Hurry up and get a job so we can be there for you again!....to take your tithing"

One of my friends left the Church for this very same reason. She had served a mission, paid a full tithing since she was a teenager, never failing, married in the temple, and had served diligently in many callings.

They were struggling and she'd never asked for help before. The Bishop told her to go ask the Stake President. The Stake President said, "Nope. No help." She was stunned. She had always taken it for granted that if she ever needed help, the Church would be there for her. She wasn't asking for the Moon.

Being an idiot TBM at the time, I said that she was looking at her tithing money as a savings account for when she needed it and that's not what it was. *gag* Now, thank goodness, we're both out.

My friend, you've just made the very important discovery that the Church takes and takes and takes and takes, but gives nothing in return. So why on earth are we giving it to them?

Well, I'm not anymore, but you know what I mean.

and how is it not fraud?

i thought the church would help people, too. if you take people's money and tell them you're going to help people, then you don't, people should be able to get their money back. this is why i think there should be a class action lawsuit against the church.

I've been thinking for awhile that tithing is going to be the church's downfall in terms of losing TBM's who would never leave for other reasons. So many are losing jobs and homes despite paying tithing. Once they get back on their feet, I think most people will feel demoralized and be terrified to pay tithing again once they realize it gives no protection and is a financial danger.

I lived in California in the 1990s when it was going through the kind of recession the whole country is in now. The policy of the church from what I heard from people was not to pay mortgages in California during those years because there were too many people in trouble. It seems from talks I've heard recently the church is urging people in this economy to rely on themselves and not expect the church to bail them out. The proportion of the problem I'm sure has tightened their purse strings.

Tithing will be the church's downfall. No one is going to want to join a church that requires that kind of financial risk. And members who lose their homes during these years will be more affected by that than doctrinal doubts.

I hope people leave en masse.

When I worked for the Church, the chapel I worked in was really far from my home. More than 50% of my salary just went to travelling back and forth to work.

My Dad just couldn't understand the demand for a full 10%. He kept saying, "Can't you explain to them that you can only afford to pay 2% for the moment?" I'd explain to him that it had to be 10%, but he just couldn't get his brain around that one.

It should be a wake up call for everyone.

Mormonism is like a very bad insurance company.They demand you pay and when you need help they don't deliver.

Oaks gave a talk last year in the Midwest where he told members flat out that the church won't help.

How hard can it be for even the most tbm person to figure out that Mormonism can't deliver in the next life either?

Every experience is different. After struggling for several years after my husband left, I finally went to the church at my brother's suggestion as his MIL was getting help. His MIL was an alcoholic who was serving time in jail for beating up her boyfriend--and she had run through a $100,000 inheritance in less than a year. Her bishop was paying her mortgage. Then my ex's boyfriend--who was not a mormon--was getting his rent paid by none else than the bishop who pushed us to get married as it was.

So--I went and was told that abusing the Lord's money was next to murder. I came home and cried for days. The bishop did help me though--he apologized to me later for being so rude to me at first. I told other single mothers to go to their bishops and they were all turned down. One bishop had the nerve to get up in SM the next week and brag about nobody in the ward needed their fast offerings so they had extra.

BUT, my friend, who lived in a wealthy ward (though they aren't wealthy)--her husband lost his job and the bishop showed up on their doorstep the very day he found out and said, "Your mortgage will be paid until you find another job."

There is no rhyme or reason.

One person will get help, another will not and tbm believe it's gawds will, because the morg is always right.

Favoritism, alienation, judgementality, lies, what a joke.

Go to friends, facebook, state agencies, call in radio or run your own free classified "great guy looking for work! Positive, team builder ready to go, call me now for instant results"

You'll probably hear from a lot single ladies! ;-)

Wonder why my wife who was a recent convert at the time got 2 months of groceries and a month of rent. Even though shes was living the life of a mino even then. The bishop did a good job of buying her loyalty for $500 in 1990s money.

I had a similair experience when I was a member,been out a few years now and Work in the community,which is quite poor,had cause to help a family last week who were in crisis,the Father had left the home,Mum and 4 children,she had been surviving on child benefit alone,£50 weekly,still waiting for other state benefits to be awarded,I phoned a few churches in the area,evangelical,salvation army and baptist,all gave generously,2 local community groups donated too,did'nt bother to contact the TSCC,firstly because I knew no one would be there and secondly I knew what the answer would be.
I had seen this happen when a member,I went into the ward kitchen one sunday morning aand a family were round a table eating soup and bread,they had appeared at the church that morning asking for help,and thats all they got a bowl of soup and some bread.
One of the worst incidents I witnessed was when I was in the building late one night,clearing up after a R/S activity,just myself and one other sister,someone phoned to say they had arrived in town on the ferry from northern ireland,it was running late and he had missed the connectingtrain,he was an active member,I phoned the EQP to ask him to phone the chap at the train station,his answer "there is nothing we do in situations like that"I phoned a male friend and he picked the chap up and took him to his home.
The following sunday the eqp came to me and apologised,he only did this because he had been caught out(I had told the bishop and many others)what a numpty he was,the TSCC makes me fume,

I am sorry for your problems with employment.

I - in no way - would try to downplay your problems......but, just to step outside the box for a moment.

# The bishop doesn't get any financial reward from the church, whether you pay full tithing, or none at all.
# He has his own problems as well as all the problems of the ward to deal with
# In the current climate, he probably has several people in exactly the same position
# he is being squeezed by the SP, who is being squeezed by the corporation.

Thanks, EssexExMo.

I don't quite grasp what you are getting at. Please re-read what I wrote about the bishop:

--->"Bishop is a friendly guy, and there certainly is no malice in him....Bishop, you're a good man and a great father to your children..."

--->"...victim of a system that sucks up the resources of its members and then tells them they need to be self reliant before offering any sympathy whatsoever."

I fully understand that bishops are people, too. I am absolutely sympathetic to the plight of a TBM who never asked to be bishop, has his own challenges, has limited fast-offering funds, and likely is pressured to be frugal with them.

I have a bigger beef with TSCC as an institution and the way it collects and spends its money with relatively little transparency.

--->"But I am more bothered by lack of sympathy than l[ack] of financial assistance."

However, I will say this much, if someone ever approaches me saying they lost their job, I will be as sympathetic as possible. I will try to empathize with them. Even if I don't have the funds to help them, I will try to genuinely show that I care. I didn't get that from the Bishop.

To some extent, the way many members and local leaders act is a reflection on the TSCC as an institution. People must take responsibility for their own behaviors, but I can understand how difficult it is when your entire life is guided by the church.

I appreciate, EssexExMo, that you're trying to be fair and see things from all sides.

However, just because the bishop isn't the godfather calling the shots, he's the goon who carries them out.

The bishop is a very important cog in wheel that keeps the money rolling in for the Morg and their real estate ventures.

The bishop
- holds tithing settlement and pesters all members to attend.
- decides if a member is a full-tithe payer and may withhold a temple recommend as a result of that decision.
- knows very well the extent to which TSCC "helps" families-in-crisis and either by commission or omission, lies about tithes going to help those in financial need.

The OP stated that the response he got from the bishop was, I'll keep my eyes open." The bishop, at least, could have spent the time equivalent of one tithing settlement interview to discuss options with the OP.

The bishop may very well be a good man who doesn't like that he can't help the families who need it, but he is part of the lie that is tithing. He may not get paid in money, but the adulation and admiration of the members and the promise of bishop-size blessings in Mormon heaven is a pay-off for many bishops, etc.

They talk the talk but don't walk the walk. Their ultimate concept of welfare is self-reliance, so they help you be more self-reliant by giving you nothing. It's Mormon God's way of teaching you how to fish instead of just giving you a fish.