Headline from Huffington post dot com:
"Toddler Crawls Onto Busy Highway" [video included]

Now, that's not the focus of my post. It's someone named BandsofBlack who posted the following comment:

"I live in the "Family Values" state of Utah where kids are at a surplus. In the space of just a few months I once picked up four different kids.

The first was a toddler toddling down the street in just a diaper. I called the police and they figured out where he lived. When they returned him his family hadn't missed him yet.

The next was a four year old girl walking down the sidewalk. When she got close to me she held up her arms for me to pick her up and said "I'm tired". I went to the nearest house with her and had them call the police then I waited 'til they arrived (45 minutes later) and they still hadn't received a missing child report on her.

The third was a six year old who'd missed his bus (how do they not make sure a SIX year old gets on the bus?) and was hitchhiking home. I picked him up and brought him to the nearest office building and told them what was going on. Of course I also lectured him on never getting into a car with someone he didn't know. Turns out he would have been home alone had he made his bus so he wasn't missed.

The fourth was yet a different toddler roaming the neighborhood. It turns out his FIVE year old sister was supposed to be watching him, so of course the mom blamed HER when the kid went missing."

Question: how true or false would this story be in Utah? We're all more or less aware of that family that left a mentally challenged kid in a hot SUV after church for many hours til he died. But how badly would Utah Marminz behave when it came to their dozen or so kids?

Thankfully, you were there for those endangered little kiddies!

The mormon church needs to address this problem with special parenting classes in RS and priesthood meetings.

this is what my mom tells me. I have no recollection of it, but I guess I'd gotten out of a bath, left the house and was wandering the neighborhood naked and sudsy. She wasn't ashamed of it, it was just normal and cute in her mind.

The first memories I have do not include my parents. They include wandering into the patch of woods behind our house and climbing a tree, falling and scraping my knee. I was no older than 4.

There was also a time when I was 3 or 4 when I was in the garage and I deliberately inhaled on some nozzle, I think it was an empty gas can. I remember sucking a piece of linty substance into my throat.

I really don't get my parents or how their minds work. They seem like aliens to me. I do still love them and I remember loving them as a kid, and thinking of them as flawless.

Growing up with 5 siblings in CA, my family is lucky we all made it to adulthood alive. When one of my little sisters was 3,and apparently I and my older brothers were supposed to be watching her, she ate poisonous mushrooms off our front lawn. I was 9. Mom was inside nursing the youngest. My younger brother was found wandering the neighborhood naked, at 2 years old.

We moved out to the country when I was almost 10. My parents thought us older children responsible enough to basically raise the younger ones. I suffered abuse at the hands of my oldest brother, including a broken foot and ankle-he threw one of Mom's high heeled shoes at me that hit my ankle, then stomped on my foot later that night. This brother also molested one of my younger brothers with a broom handle. My brother is traumetized from the incident. This older brother, given power over 5 siblings was a tyrant and abuser. Nobody in my family has any kind of relationship with him as adults.

We did so many dangerous and stupid things in the absence of our parents. We had water fights on 2nd story roofs, we jumped off a trampoline into an above-ground pool, we shot rifles and bow-and-arrows, we made bike jumps. One brother broke his arm on the trampoline. It was bent at a disgusting angle. I had no idea where my parents were or any way to get in touch with them. At 13, I knew their neglect could get them in trouble. I didn't call 911 as I should have, out of fear. I gave my brother Advil, and we iced his arm until my parents got home...4 hours later. I have about a million horror-stories that us kids went through while my rich, professional parents were out at Amway conventions, on weekend excursions, etc.

I'm somewhat of a too diligent mother because of this. I know I'm overprotective and I worry too much about my own kids. I have a serious guilt complex, especially since I've been sick and my oldest(12), has been doing more than her fair share of watching her younger 3 siblings. Thankfully she adores her almost 3 year old brother and actually really enjoys playing with him and watching him. I have that to be thankful for.

We've only recently allowed her to start babysitting. She's been begging us to let her for over a year. We only will leave the 2 easy kids with her though. Our other daughter with ADHD is a handful and she and older Sis are like water and vinegar. We've only left her with all the kids when they were asleep. Lol. She always knows where we're going and we both have cell phones. We've never left her for more than 2 hours. This is such a contrast to my parents, who regularly left me, at 11 or 12, to care for my 3 younger sibs for entire weekends.

It's not right. Parents need to be parents. They should not rely on their older children to raise the younger ones. It happens way too much in Mormon and other large families.

My Mormon mother denies that she was absent or negligent to this day, despite at least 4 of her children confronting her about it. She honestly thinks she was the best mother she could possibly have been. My father has apologized to me, to us, for the neglect. At least he recognizes it. My step-mom is aghast at the stories we share with them about the stuff we did while they were absent. It was her, who made my father see just how wrong it all was.

TTFN,
Jenn

Sounds like my neighborhood in north east Utah County. I come home to kids as young as 18 months roaming around unsupervised. There are several kids around my sons age in the neighborhood but I don't like to go let him play with them because I become the de-facto supervisor for the whole freaking block.

It kills me because he loves to play with other kids, and he's got the disadvantage of use being the only non/ex-mormons in the neighborhood. Maybe I should just up my homeowners liability and take him out more. If I didn't have such an amazing job and good family here I'd split faster than the blink of an eye.

I've not allowed my kids to play much with the neighbor kids across the street for similar reasons. They are not Mormon, but have 4 kids 7 and under. The kids literally are climbing the walls when I've been to their house. I kid you not. The mother let's them run wild. The house is filthy, with dirty food mess all over the floor and furniture. These kids regularly "escape" their house and are found wandering the street too. My neighbor is simply overwhelmed.

I was always astonished when I lived in the west part of the Salt Lake Valley by the so-called parenting skills of Utah Mormons. I routinely saw children running around stores unsupervised, chewing on balloons, running around restaurants where hot food was being served etc. while parents seemed completely unaware.

My MIL worked while her kids were growing up and instead of arranging proper care for them like most working moms do, she let my then 5-year-old SIL stay home alone til her afternoon kindergarten started. SIL says her mom would set the oven timer and put on the TV before she left for work. When the timer went off, she was supposed to pick up her school bag, go out the front door and walk 3 blocks to school. AT FIVE.

My BYU roommate told me that when the Draper Temple was dedicated, her next-door neighbor in Utah went to the dedication, taking her other kids but leaving her 7 year old home alone because he was too young to attend. Apparently the 7 year old baked brownies while they were gone to serve when the family returned. The neighbor bragged about this but my former roommate was appalled.

Another friend of mine moved back to Utah with her DH and 3 kids after he finished medical school. She was pregnant with her 4th child and while he was setting up his practice, they lived in the one bedroom apartment in her MIL's basement. My friend routinely woke up to find the front door open and her 6 and 3 year old wandering around the neighborhood in their pajamas. She asked MIL if she could put a chain lock on the door, out of reach of the 6 year old so they couldn't escape if they woke up before she did, but MIL said no. She didn't want to ruin the door. MIL didn't care her grandkids were running around unsupervised - she cared about her door looking nice. When I would visit this friend, I often saw her kids running around outside, a block from home in only a diaper, dirty and snot-nosed. I'd grab them and bring them back to her house for her and she'd just laugh and sigh and act like there wasn't much you could do about it.

So yeah, I believe this guy wholeheartedly.

There was a state ranking in Parents Magazine a few years ago about child safety. Utah, big surprise, was last.

They compared child accident and death rates, health insurance and stats, state laws about child safety and more.

Utah, I believe, didn't have a helmet law for kids and had very lax laws about child safety seats.

Unfortunately the story is no longer online.

I've picked up one kid in 30 years here away from the corridor. His panicked parents were wildly searching immediately.

http://www.utahsafetycouncil.org/assets/pdf/utboosterlaw.pdf

And check out page two: "If all seating positions are occupied by other passengers, unrestrained occupants are exempt
from the law."

So a Mo family in a seven seat minivan with six kids and two parents is allowed to have one person unrestrained by any device whatsoever. This exception would most likely skew toward TBM families with lots of kids.

Holy.Mother.of.God.

I cannot imagine this happening elsewhere least of all during my childhood. My culture dictates that parents, at least mom, hover over their children to the point of over protectiveness. Myself, I was constantly scolded for trying to cross our street (very light traffic) on my own when I was 10 years old. My dad happened to look out the window, and seeing me, he all but screamed to stay where I was and he'd come get me.

The video that accompanied the Huffington Post article, I didn't want to watch that. Just too goddamn heart stopping. The stories you share out of Family Values Utah has me shaking my head in utter, utter disbelief. Parenting is the hardest job on earth, but it's instinct and actual care that keeps the kids out of trouble. A dozen kids kind of defeats the purpose of personal care.

Are these Utah family values or mormon family values?

I live nowhere near Utah (I'm in Georgia) but I can tell you that for the most part, I don't generally see neglected children.

Stores, restaurants, etc. I usually see parents within a couple of yards away from children and kids are usually well supervised.

I can only think of 2 areas where I've seen some different things: my workplace (library) and inside a mormon church.

I do work in a smallish neighborhood library. It's located in a less-affluent part of the county. Many of the people who come in to use the library only use it for the free internet so I see lots of parents who are addicted to myspace or facebook habitually leave their small children (3 years old or younger) over in the children's area with their backs to them. I do my best to keep a special eye on them but ultimately I have a job to do and if I need to move away from the desk then the kids are left in an area just 5 steps from the front door. It's been a nightmare of mine to have someone come inside, see a small child with no obvious keeper around, take the child's hand and walk out the front door. Parents think the libray is a safe place and I did too until I started working there and after hearing horror stories from other workers.

And then there's the mormon church. The last time I attended a meeting (years ago) I routinely saw small children running up and down the hallways unattended or only with a slightly older sibling. I would see kids poke their heads in during SS or relief society looking for their parents. These kids could have easily gotten outside while opening the doors and no one seemed to care about those possibilities. I can't say that I've been to a lot of other churches where you would see this happening. Other families generally will take care of their own children. In mormonism, it seems that all the teenagers and adults will ensure that no young child will endanger themselves. The responsibility is spread out. I can't imagine myself being the kind of mother who thinks that a 5 year old is capable of taking care and protecting hisself/herself. My husband is the oldest of 6 and had to do this very thing. I think it's one of the reasons we've decided to only have 1 or 2. My husband has only been a dad for 15 months but feels like he's been one since he was about 6 years old.

It's slightly off topic on parenting but basically a Utah lawyer and a Utah couple essentially kidnapped a baby from Virginia -- breaking several laws in Virginia in the process and claiming it was okay because a Utah lawyer said they were adopting the baby. Granted, the mother filled out adoption paperwork (the day after the baby was born, which is ALSO a violation of Virginia law -- mom's have to wait three days after the birth of a child to sign away their rights) but all concerned were informed numerous times that the father was involved and wanted to raise his daughter.

Just google Baby Emma for more on this farce. It's at the Utah Supreme Court right now but I'm kind of hoping it goes to the Federal Supreme Court level AND I hope the couple who took this baby face federal kidnapping charges.

Wow how coincidental this thread should appear. I was about to post on this same subject. I was apalled when I live in Utah at the things that happened with little kids. Accident after accident that I couldn't believe. One day a toddler in his diaper came toddling down the sidewalk in front of our home; we had no idea where he belonged! Finally we found the mother and she didn't even know he had been missing. Visiting from NY my mother couldn't believe the stuff she was seeing. She was incredulous one day as she watched a father give his very young son (around a year old) peanut m&m's.

Recently 18 month old daughter of TBM family members fell into a campfire!!! Can you imagine? And they are rather blase about it too.

out

I spent all of my teenage years believing that my dad hated me and blamed me for my sister's rape when she was 7 years old. When it happened, my dad beat me with the buckle of a belt and I have a mark to this day from that. While he was beating me he was yelling "I told you to watch her!" My mom was out of town with another brother who was in the hospital.

I had recurring nightmares for years. I'd dream that I remembered my dad telling me to watch her. Then I'd wake up and I never could figure out whether he'd told me to watch her or not. It was not something I remembered him telling me to do.

It wasn't until I was an adult that it hit me--"Where was he and why wasn't he watching her?" I'm sure we'd all gone out the door in the morning and this happened in the late afternoon and I'll bet he never once went out the door all day to try to see where his 7-year-old daughter was and make sure the 12-year-old was watching her. I'm sure he was at home with his nose stuck in his Popular Mechanics magazine.

But it will always be the big elephant in the room. After that day it was never talked about again (which is why I always thought he still blamed me for it). But after I was an adult I realized that my dad's rage was his own guilt, knowing he should have given a shit about where she was. But I think it's typical of people who have too many kids and get complacent thinking the older kids are taking on the responsibility of the younger ones. And it shouldn't be that way.

@ NormaRae: I'm sorry that terrible experience happened to you and your sister. How do you feel about your dad now?

I just remembered something that happened many years ago when I was a teen. Picture this: Saturday afternoon at a Mormon church, people were trickling in for some kind of tri-ward activity.

This couple from Utah, the father's famous in SLC I hear but I forgot his name, and their two small children and infant. We're all standing around the parking lot, cars coming in and out to deposit passengers and then turning to park.

You know where this is going, right?

Mum and dad who are talking to church members (fans?) when
younger of the two toddler wanders away. I'd just stepped out of the chapel building in time to see her walk towards the gate WITH a car backing up towards the gate, too! All I could say was "HEY!" and ran to get her out of the way. Carried the baby and, as they were the only Caucasians in the ward, I knew who to give her to.

Mom and dad turn when I yell. You would've thought they would have been in panic or something. I mean, come on! Car vs baby, hello? Oh, no. The two were calm as they took the baby, like it was the most natural thing in the world to watch their little one almost get crushed by a car. They cooed at it and turned back to whomever it was they were speaking.

Yes, it's a Mormon thing not to care what happens to kids. Oh, and not a word of thanks from them for saving their kid from a close call. But I bet they would sue the driver and anyone nearby to ease their guilt.

I was at a supermarket in Bountiful and there was a toddler wandering around in front of the front doors, just steps from traffic, calling desperately for his mom who was nowhere to be seen. Shockingly, other adults were entering and leaving the store looking at the child, but walking right past him. I stopped to ask him where his mom was and told him we would find her and had him walk inside the store with the idea of taking him to customer relations and having an announcement made. As soon as we stepped in the store, I saw through an inside window that the mom was on the pay phone outside, around the corner from where the child was wandering - within hearing distance of his cries but chattering away on the phone ignoring him. So I took him back to her and she took his hand, huffed a mumbled thanks and stomped away as if I'd insulted her. She couldn't have cared less about her child and I clearly was the bad guy for noticing that. Her son's safety didn't even figure into the equation.