SALT LAKE CITY — A 1911 Browning pistol is just one step away from joining the honeybee and sego lily as official Beehive State symbols

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705366489/Utahns-dont-want-state-firearm-poll-shows.html

John Browning was a brilliant inventor. The 1911 pistol was only one of his many brilliant inventions. Browning invented the lever action rifle which he sold to Winchester. He invented the modern semiautomatic pistol that every modern pistol like the Glock is based on. He invented "Ma Deuce" the 50 caliber machine gun our military still uses. He invented the Browing Automatic rifle, the first light machine gun which was later replaced by the belt fed M-60.

Those are just a few.

Just think of the difference he could have made had he not devoted his life and talents to more efficiently maiming and killing.

I'm sure he's burning somewhere.

Spare all the 2nd amendment arguments - they're all BS.

Spare us your lefty-looney idiocy.
Rubicon is correct, Browning was a brilliant inventor, especially IMO with the O/U shotgun.
My Browning Citori is my baby! I own lots of guns and have never killed or maimed anyone with them.
People do actually use guns to get food, defend their lives, and for sport shooting.

I'm neither loony nor left. And I'm certainly not an idiot - my employment is thought-based. I've voted conservative more times than left though I think the current right has been contaminated.

I don't doubt Browning was a "brilliant inventor" - he's still an evil man who deserves to spend his life rotting in hell. Most humane individuals who have the skills devote their talents to making the world a better place.

That you may never have maimed or killed someone is neither here nor there - his work has so he's certainly an accessory. As for hunting - killing God's creation for kicks is perverted in the extreme. Think about it.

Most gun nuts say they keep guns to guarantee freedom or protect from the government. This is all BS - if the government wanted to run over these NRA people, a little pistol or shotgun won't stop them.

No I'm not.

IGNORANT, because he was a brilliant inventor.
So, you think that eating meat is perverted in the extreme?
You are INSANE as well. Humans are omnivores; we have always eaten meat, it is part of our natural diet.
Perhaps you should inform all all the native peoples, eskimos, etc., that they are perverted in the extreme.
Good luck with that. Creep.

I do eat meat. I don't get kicks out of killing things which is what hunting is all about - a tingling in the spine when you play God and snuff something's life out.

So I'm ignorant just because you disagree with me? I'm clearly having a discussion with a thinker.

You aren't even man enough to do it yourself.
COWARD.

I hunt, and I take it very seriously. You obviously have NO IDEA how I fell when I hunt or why I am doing it. Yes you are IGNORANT. You should stick to topics you know something about rather than preaching this "religion" of yours that has no logic to it.

You have no idea what I think.

However seriously you may take it, I doubt it's much fun for your prey being terrified and shot to pieces - probably even worse if you are only half successful.

As you point out, meat has been part of our diet "for ever" so I have no problems eating it. Abbatoirs probably do the best of a bad job.

That said, if hunting were such fun, why did the British government find fit to ban foxhunting?

You are really out in left field. I don't know anyone who would hunt for fox. I'm only in favor of hunting for food.

I'm sure your cow that you are eating really enjoyed being herded up the chute at the slaughterhouse and perhaps skinned alive. Things like that happen.
I really don't see the difference between shooting a cow in the head with a rifle and doing the same thing with an elk.
I have much more control over how wild game is killed and how the meat is handled than we have over the farmed meat we get from cattle.

Most of the hunting I do is for upland game birds anyway. I also fish, I supposed that's perverted as well.

its head at the slaughterhouse, either. There's nothing remotely humane about a slaughterhouse or most agribusiness livestock operations. Your arguments would be more persuasive if you backed them up with your actions. Killing animals for food is not a "necessary evil." You can do without meat. If you choose to eat meat, as is your right, don't pretend death isn't part of the equation. Any time there is meat on your table, whether purchased at a grocery store or killed by your own hand, something died. Your argument boils down to, "Not only should you let someone else do the dirty work, but it should be illegal for you to do the dirty work yourself. It's icky."

Thanks for putting words into my mouth. I never pretended death wasn't part of the equation. I said I don't get thrills out of killing myself and if there were a better way to kill animals for food than in a slaughterhouse I'd be all for it.

I am glad you like your citori but Browning's genius & forte was definitely displayed with repeating & ,subsequently, automatic feeding rapid fire weapons.

Coward.

I carry a pistol everyday for work. My pistol has never maimed anyone. It has saved several people, including myself and has been a force for good. Thank you John Browning.

Yes of course. And terrorists are really nothing but misunderstood freedom fighters.

Only an evil man would seek to control others, as you do.
Why do you have this need to impose YOUR will and YOUR way of life upon EVERYONE?
Why are you such a hater? Why are you insulting people here?

I'm not seeking to control anyone.

Those who get kicks out of snuffing out animal life or deluding themselves that the streets or our kids are safer because they are packing heat are the ones who have historically, in our country, been the ones who go to extreme lengths to impose their way of life and desires on us all. It has never worked and I doubt it ever will - whatever way you look at it, a European school or street is safer than a US school or street. Maybe that's because not everyone can buy whatever they want.

I don't hate anyone either. It seems you're over-reacting a little. Which is worrying if you're packing heat.

It's very hard to take someone seriously when they have to hide behind a sock-puppet rather than use their regular handle.
Not that I would take you seriously anyway, since you are illogical: You eat meat but do not believe in killing animals.
What a fucking hypocrite.

I told you I love my Browning Citori. Do you even know what that is? Do you even know what I do with it?
Probably not; you are too busy calling me names that don't even remotely apply to me. You do not deal with me directly or use individual cases, you make generalizations like "the type of people". What bullshit.

No need to get irrational - I didn't call you any names. You swore at me.

I don't know what a Browning Citori is and I don't my care. I wish you happiness with whatever you do with it.

There is nothing illogical or hypocritical about eating meat and not hunting. Killing animals for food is a necessary evil. I'd rather an abbatoir does it rather than someone getting thrills from it. If there were a better way altogether I'd be all for that. Hell, there must be a reason why the WOW tells us to eat meat sparingly.

Are you saying that if you killed your own meat, you'd get thrills from it?
Hmmm.... you are really a strange one. and totally illogical.
Why don't you just shut up and let other people be?
Oh, wait, because you want everyone to think like you and live like you. You want to control people.

No I'm not saying that. That's probably why I don't hunt.

You're the one who called me a "loony left idiot" and a "fucking hypocrite". It hasn't exactly been a respectful discussion.

And you still are not being very logical.
Now you're saying the reason you don't hunt is because you would not get a "thrill" out of killing something.
Are you trying to say that the reason ANYONE hunts is because they get a "thrill" out of killing? Because several of us have told you already that that is not the case. Are you just not reading it, or do you not believe us, or what?
and how do you know your slaughterhouse person is not getting a "thrill" out of killing? Since you seem to think people only kill for the "thrill" of it?
Once again, I ask, what is the difference?
Somebody has to kill an animal to enable you to eat meat. It's as simple as that.

In that case, why not go to your local supermarket and get your meat?

our local meat store -- and sometimes that includes elk that was harvested by a hunter. Or from a cow that was shot by a .22 by a local farmer. Same thing!
We just like to supplement our diet with some of our favorite meats like pheasant, elk, salmon, etc.
When you get the meat yourself, you control exactly how it dressed and handled and preserved. You have more control over the quality and purity of your meat. That's why most people (that I know) hunt.
Yes, we exist.

Fair enough. I grew up in the UK countryside next to a guy who raised pheasants for the hunt. I'd hate seeing the beaters scare the birds into the air on New Year's day and seeing them literally shot to pieces by shotgun pellets. They weren't always dead when they hit the ground and that was a pretty powerful early memory.

As far as wanting to control your behavior - I do inasmuch as we live in a Democracy and we aim to elect those whose views match our own and who will influence legislation in those ways with which we may agree. No more than anyone else I suppose.

On that note, I need to sleep. Peace.

Bad argument over the Europe being safer than the US. Every country has good and bad areas, and Europe is very diverse. There are dangerous countries within Europe. Sure you can point to the western liberal democracies as safe, but still you have countries like Spain, Portugal, and Ireland which don't support your case.

There are parts of town in Germany it is just as dangerous as America. Guess what I could get pretty much what I wanted as far as pistols go overthere. Only reason I didnt is cause I had a family and a job. A criminal who is going to use a weapon for crime has no such scruples.

When i hunt I dont shoot anything to peices. I use a single shot.

Although Brownings guns certainly helped US solders in WWI / II and Utah is proud of him, I suspect there is no hell in which to burn Mr.Browning. Even if there was, it is not like he invented thermonuclear devices, just improved on existing guns.

I only put out the article to show where Utah and by extention the Church, is at in it's gun attitudes. Right or wrong they are sending a message. Pretty much a " Don;t tred on me " message. I have a safe full of guns and even a cute little Browning Auto loader, but still don't like the symbolism on the symbol.

If they are trying to keep up with the new crazy Arizona-They should have just redrawn the whole symbol showing a honey bee packing six 1911's with a sego lily of peace in its mouth.

Oh, then it would have looked too much like the Sea Bees.

Here in Arizona we are the crazy state now where everyone can now carry concealed, no permit. Out here in the sticks it doesn't seem like such a big deal, but picture everyone packing in Phoenix with millions of people. Scary. I have seen a few missfires even among safe people. Think of millions of unsafe guns. It is enough to send shudders through gun saftey minded people everywhere.

There is such a thing as middle of the road on gun issues. But these are polarizising times I suppose.

without a permit?
They could always OPEN-carry without a permit; that's true in many states, including mine, but most people aren't aware that it's perfectly legal.
when did the concealed-carry law change there?

the new F-35 fighter jet in a full page spread right on the front cover, due to it having an LDS test pilot. it seemed to say "yah us mormons are here to spread the message of (our version of) christ & to kill yer ass if you dont like it! & we got just the machine to do it too!
Looky looky at us!"

MORmONS are so desperate for attention/ validation that they will glam onto anything noteworthy.

Nothing against guns, but why the fucking hell does Utard need an official gun? Doesn't the legislature have more important things to do??