I wanted to continue the thread from last night and add a few things.

First of all, thanks to everyone for putting me in my place. I needed it. I needed the shock of your responses (well, except the castration bit...that was a little harsh) to realize how selfish I've been, because as effed up as it may sound, I haven't fully realized it. I think in my mind at the time I honestly wouldn't have felt bad if it all ended because of how she was responding and was therefore careless in my actions. I realize in hindsight that my actions and lack of caution were largely responsible for her responses.

A few points of clarification:

- We've been separated since last Thursday, which makes for 8 days tomorrow. Some people seemed confused about the timing.

- I do very much love her.

- When I told my wife the news at 2am, it was because she caught me awake in the living room after I had just finished a phone conversation with the guy who ultimately was the gateway for me to "see the light." I didn't have a good alibi, and told her I have some big things to discuss (keep in mind I was caught off-guard). I said this can wait or it can happen now if you really want. She said she wanted to talk...not good timing but really didn't seem like I had a choice at the time. Whatever, what's done is done.

- Porn - how does she know about it? Because she asks and I'm truthful. Am I supposed to lie to her (honest question)? Here's the tough part of it though. She wants my commitment to NEVER be involved in it, EVER. I can't say that with a straight face. I know I'll be involved in it sometime in the future. Although, to those who advised not to be involved now after she just had our baby...that was very obvious and wise counsel I will take to heart. But do I really have to make that choice? Is that fair? Porn or me? Should I just bite the bullet and commit to something I am likely not going to be able to uphold?

- Alcohol - I clearly need to lay off, and I will. However, once the dust settles I'm hoping she'll soften her stance.

Lastly, I just have to say that my situation may be unique because unlike many others, it didn't take me months or even days to make my decision. If any of you have heard that podcast with Tal Bachman and Tom Philips I think it's Tal that mentions a testimony that's been built up for decades can crumble in a matter of hours. That's how it was for me. It crumbled all so fast and rocked me to the core. So, it's unfortunate that my wife and kids ended up being collateral damage, it really is, but I was so shocked at my discovery at the time that I don't think I had the capacity to even think about "faking" it. There was no way I was going to attend church again, pretend to believe, pay tithing, or any of it. I was disgusted at the church and no way, absolutely no way I was going to even pretend to believe anymore.

In the end, I called my wife last night and told her how sorry I was (balling) for everything I'd done wrong and all the harsh things I may have said/done. I was a wreck. She said she really doubted the marriage but after saying the things I'd said she said she'd be willing to open the door for discussion. She comes home tomorrow and we'll start to talk it out. I'm still not certain what will come of it in the long run, but for now I'm all in and am going to treat her as my highest priority.

The Church is not true. However, does that mean you have to stop going? Tell your wife you'll continue to go, for her and your children, and raise your kids in the Church. After all, if there is no Hell, then Mormonism can't send you to it. If you have a wife you love, then Church isn't that bad. You have something to look forward to after three incredibly boring hours.

Porn: A male-dominated bad habit. However, all it not lost. Get rid of your computer (if you have it...you'll look at porn), and visit strip clubs once a week, and also the porn shop using has an area in the back to view videos. The floor is often sticky, so watch out. Just spread some paper towels down before you sit down. Don't tell our wife about the strip clubs, or the porn shop. Tell her...you went to the library.

Does your wife REALLY have to leave the Church in order to be married to you? I realize tithing is a LOT of money, but what is too much to save your marriage? Do you know how many attractive single women are out there? Very, very few, and they're usually only single for a few days, or a few hours, at most. Sure, you can get a P.Y. Thang, but you'd better be richer than God!!!!

Tell her: Honey, I no longer believe in the Church, but I believe it is a great institution to raise your family. So, I'm willing to raise our children in the Church, and to continue to attend it, for you. I'm getting rid of my computer, because I'm addicted to porn, and if I keep it, I'll watch it eventually. It's gone." Either she will accept that, or she won't.

Strip club and porn shop is way worse-way more to hide, more people to see you go in and out. What do you think smart phones are for? Don't set don't tell. And download a private browser app. Make some vague agreement. No one but you needs to know what happens between your hand and your jimmy.

Good luck.
Just keep in mind what it's like for her.

I don't think you read a single thing I said.

1. Me not going to church on Sunday's isn't a problem. She doesn't expect me to go if I don't believe (duh, what would be the point anyway?)

2. When did I EVER say my wife has to leave the church to be married to me?

3. Not paying tithing isn't an issue either.

4. I'm supposed to visit strip clubs??? Backs of porn shops?? Get effing real.

5. Get rid of my computer? A) I need a computer for you know, this thing called work. B) there's a filter on the computer (it's a shared home computer). C) porn is available in a myriad of different places than just a PC as you so clearly pointed out.

6. I'm not even sure your post is serious. It feels more like a condescending pile of garbage (floor is sticky so watch out...spread some paper towels...)

If I continue I'll start spewing things I'll regret later so I'll stop now.

I thought that post was kind of off, so I just assumed it was meant as satire??? Not sure...

Yeah, it was full of bad points. From visiting strip clubs to getting rid of your computer to agreeing to continue paying tithing and attending church if you have mentally checked out of TSCC.

While I think it's torture to continue to attend and pay tithing (assuming they were an issue, but you say they're not) after one has seen TSCC for what it is, you have to remember that paying child support and maintaining two households is not inexpensive, either. That is not a pleasant choice.

Anyway, I think the main point in OP's post was that his wife threatened with divorce after she found out OP discovered TSCC is a scam (my situation also, although it feels like a really slow-motion train-wreck).

Aenon E. Moss,

I was so disgusted by your post about the "sticky floor" that I went back to read some of your past posts. You've only been posting here for a month or so.

You mentioned in a Dec 31 post re "Mormon Dances" that you have Aspergers -- that explains a lot about your sometimes "shocking" remarks on RFM.

I know it's a brain disease and its hard to regulate your answers in a more socially acceptable way.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2014 12:59AM by Senoritalamanita.

Senoritalamanita:

I may or may not be wrong, but it seems possible that "Aenon E.Moss" may be posing as a "person with Aspberger's" and intentionally making inappropriate comments as part of "viral marketing" of this highly sensationalized "diagnosis de jour" at a high-traffic forum.
Of course, s/he also may be plain trolling.

Porn is a horribly misunderstood concept that people have difficulty even discussing as some of the replies to my following comments will prove.

Warning: If you are susceptible to having smoke pour out of your ears stop reading now.

There are both positive and negative benefits to porn. The negative has been addressed on this site quite adamantly so I will attempt to explain why porn is a good thing and needs to be embraced.

(this is your last chance to stop reading)

Men are horny creatures that have an innate drive to have sex to propagate the species. Men did not ask for this sex drive, it was placed in them by nature so the human species would survive and flourish. This means that the male sex drive is a good thing. The problem men have with this hopped up sex drive is that dog needs to run and if you kennel him up he will howl and bark and squeal until you let him out.

Are you following me?

Men have different options to consider when they decide it is OK to let their dog run loose. In caveman days you had men basically raping women and anything else with a hole in it. Man evolved and at least began to acknowldge that lovemaking is much more satisfactory when the other party is a willing participant.

Then along comes modern religion and they have figured out by now that they can really control people if they oppress their sex drive by making it naughty and punishable by eternal torment.

Same primitive sex drive. Way different set of rules.

Do you see the Malthusian timebomb they laid for us?

Mankind is conditioned by society to think sex is bad and you are forbidden to do it unless under sterile conditions. The effect this has on an ignorant little boy is that it makes masturbating more exciting than it normally would be if it was introduced in a more responsible manner.

The result of all this destructive programming is that the sexually oppressed male will seek visual stimuli to enhance the pleasure of his naughty behavior.

This is key to my point. Men will get their visual stimuli from any place they can get it. If there was no pornography men would be mentally downloading visual images of their classmates, co-workers and fellow congregationists and entertaining different scenarios where they are having sex with these people.

You need to ask yourself if you would rather have some man sizing up your daughter in her tight San Francisco jeans so he can think of her later when he is pleasuring himself or would you want a handful of paid actors who know exactly what people are doing when they are watching them have sex.

When I hear a male of the species go on about the evils of porn I must assume he gets off on fantasizing about people he knows in real life who would be horrified if they could read his nasty thoughts.

In conclusion I propose that porn is a good thing and should be nurtured because the alternative is having men thinking about you or someone you love when they toss one off.

Blaming men for their sex drive and oppressing it can be a very cruel thing to do and I'm sure it has caused a large number of suicides and violent behaviors.

The paradox between men and women is men give love to get sex and women give sex to get love so as long as we have this dynamic you will always have friction between the two genders.

Anyone's head smoking yet?

And I just want to point out that if this post causes you discomfort it says alot about you and your programming.

No, I find it discomforting because it's misogynist and assumes all men are completely ruled by what's going on in their undershorts.

ddy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are both positive and negative benefits to
> porn.

I agree and I am female. I watch porn (alone) and have watched it with my ex-boyfriend. It turned both of us on and taught us a whole lot of new moves.

> Mankind is conditioned by society to think sex is
> bad and you are forbidden to do it unless under
> sterile conditions. The effect this has on an
> ignorant little boy is that it makes masturbating
> more exciting than it normally would be if it was
> introduced in a more responsible manner.

I think this applies to women as well. It is not just a "man" thing. I had a HUGE "problem" with masturbation starting from the time I first discovered something down there. I remember taking a nap in my mom's bed, waking up with my hand down my pants, and the slap I received from my mom when she saw that I had been masturbating in my sleep. It caused some bad issues with me when I finally got around to having sex. In fact, I'm still trying to work my mind around these issues.

>
> This is key to my point. Men will get their visual
> stimuli from any place they can get it. If there
> was no pornography men would be mentally
> downloading visual images of their classmates,
> co-workers and fellow congregationists and
> entertaining different scenarios where they are
> having sex with these people.
^
Yeah...probably! LOL

> The paradox between men and women is men give love
> to get sex and women give sex to get love so as
> long as we have this dynamic you will always have
> friction between the two genders.

I believe your argument is too all encompassing. There are some men out there who can't see the difference between love and sex.

nomorefencesitting Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ddy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
8x

>
> > The paradox between men and women is men give
> love
> > to get sex and women give sex to get love so as
> > long as we have this dynamic you will always
> have
> > friction between the two genders.
>
> I believe your argument is too all encompassing.
> There are some men out there who can't see the
> difference between love and sex.

And some women who just like sex and don't need love.

I've learned a few things from porn that improved my sex life.

Also sometimes masterbating and porn have been an escape when otherwise sexually frustrated, and I've had to weigh the options. My wife was sick for a while and I had many months without sex, I was frustrated, angry, short tempered, and really did start longing after other women. I realized that by attempting to suppress those feelings (I wasn't masterbating or looking at porn because I knew they were bad) I was in danger of committing adultery. I felt at the time that masterbating would probably be better (after all I was technically committing adultery in my heart already), but I was taught masterbation was a sin and so I didn't. Was a very frustrating time. Thank you LDS Inc.


I do find masterbation and porn addictive though... And I don't know what the answer is. Need some more wives and concubines I guess. Or maybe polygamy + polyandry. Maybe JS was right after all.

Porn is very addictive. Some people can handle looking at it once in a while, but others have to look at it every day. And remember -- an addict always thinks they can keep it under control.
My husband became a Sex Addict -- he really has the behaviors of a drug addict.
He's so bad off he needed to masturbate at least 2X a day (before work & right after he gets home from work). Men who masturbate too much end up loving it more than a woman. They also eventually end up impotent. (Too much makes the little guy "overstretched" so to say).

He only went to treatment for sex addiction for a year or so & decided he could never conquer it.

Sex addiction has risen dramatically since porn being available on the internet. (Talk to sex addiction therapists if you need evidence)

I'd "stick to moderation in all things" otherwise you can find yourself alone for the rest of your life. Just you and your Peter.

My husband is now alone. Been arrested, convicted & on parole for his sex addiction (he just had to masturbate in a porn theater). He won't stay in treatment & would rather have his addiction than a wife. There are nowadays treatments that are effective, but it takes much more self-control to overcome the addiction than it does to limit your viewing of porn to perhaps 1x or 2x a month.

I've had to see my husband destroy himself, become physically abusive to his wife (whom he blames for his addiction -- typical addict behavior), lose his family etc.

But he's still certain he can manage a normal life while addicted.

Don't kid yourselves guys, keeping secrets from your woman who should be your intimate partner is NOT going to be good for your marriage.

Totally feel for you on this one. Your situation is vety close to mine. I think this best thing to share with your wife is john dehlins 5 myths youtube presentation. Take things slow. Feeding your wife by a firehouse never works and beleive me i tried this method. I tried assimilating and pretending that doesnt work either. There is going ro be some give and take. I still attend church and its absolutly painfull, but she now comes to college football games with the family which is painfull for her as she hates football. Take it slow. For you the wall came down quickly for her it may take years and posssibly never the way you would like. I go on sundays until priesthood then I leave. While I am at church I watch the nfl games on my phone. Reassure her often that you love her and this is about you and the church. Many times our spouse view it a rejection of them. Its not that nor ever will be unless you leave readon for them to think that. Im almost 4 years since I began to question. Find a good support system for you. If you want to chat offline I'd be happy to. Rember that just as your world collapsed so to has hers and this is a huge adjustment for her. You know how she has been taught to view you. Prove her and those myths wrong.
Good luck



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2014 01:05AM by thematrix.

Exlds you're going to do fine.

Amazed at your honesty - to yourself.
Very hard to do.
Rare that anyone does.
Most run away from who one is as one is, preferring the mythology.

Hats off and all the best.

I am SO glad that you and your wife are going to be talking and trying to work things out, that is a GOOD start.

I totally appreciate your honesty and willingness to listen and it will stand you in good stead as you work through all this.

I hope I am not going to sound judgemental (because I am NOT I assure you) and please understand that I am coming from the point of view of a woman, and a woman who has always found pornography boring.

As I have read your really honest comments, I guess I am asking "Is pornography really so important if it upsets your wife SO much?" I am NOT saying that she is 100% right in her objections, but if it is SO upsetting to her to make her feel her marriage over, is it SO important that you see it? I do NOT think lying to her about it would work, and I REALLY understand that you don't want to promise her something you cannot fulfil, that is GREAT, but I guess I don't understand the pull of porno, if it is going to loose you SO much, a wife you love and your family.

Given time your sex life may well improve, and the key to that is her feeling VERY loved. If there are other problems, do see a counsellor Together to discuss them. Please again, I am NOT judging, I just thought perhaps you need to think deeply about it all, as you are considering all your options.

I think you are doing SO well in looking at things clearly and being so honest with yourself. I wish you all the very best, and I hope you and your wife can work it out and keep your family together.

Thanks for the kind words and thoughts. And really, thanks for being honest with me and helping me see things from her perspective.

So if he has to compromise and give up ALL porn FOREVER, and alcohol, what is her side of the compromise? Where does she give in to meet in the middle and work the problems out, instead of bullying and getting her own way by throwing a fit and having to have the right to make all the rules?

I think you're doing a good thing by figuring out that you've made some serious missteps and are working hard on correcting them. Also, your wife sounds pretty flexible given the situation. I'm hopeful for you.

Given that, lots of people believe that ones porn viewing habits should be like their bathroom habits. It's private, personal and not to be shared. Just because someone is married doesn't mean they don't have an inner personal life. So long as you're not doing things that can harm your work life, or you family life, it's your personal business. People often get the mistaken idea that once they are married, they're an open book on any and all subjects. That's just not healthy. If you want to watch a little porn every now and again, it's your business, in my opinion.

Renie, Just to answer your critique of my post, if you re-read it you will find that I said that I was NOT saying she is 100% in her objections to porn. I WAS NOT suggesting that he give up everything and dance to her tune. In fact if I could talk to Exlds's wife, I would be happy to talk it out with her and find out why she finds it so upsetting.

OF COURSE I don't think he should make all the changes in their marriage while she does what she wants, but it was HIM who was seeking our help right now, NOT her. You will notice I also did NOT TELL him to give up porn, I simply suggested that he should think about it. I think that is especially important right now when things are SO shaky.

This couple can and must find some sort of compromise that makes it so that one does not WIN and the other LOOSE or it will NOT work. But right now, he is doing the thinking and I wanted to help him if I could.

YOu are TOTALLY entitled to disagree with me, I am fully able to admit I may NOT be right (Goodnight me???) but I was simply giving my 2 cents worth and hoping it would help.

So my wife came back tonight to talk things over and she told me she wants to separate for the time being. I was not expecting this but maybe I should have. She is going to stay at her parents with the kids and come down once a week for a couple counseling session and perhaps dinner. She's heading up tonight and has already left.

She said she wants to fall in love with me again and date me. I fought against it (very respectfully and in a low tone mind you...this was a very good conversation) and pleaded the case that we stay together and work it out, but she wouldn't budge. It's going to be really tough and I'm going to miss her horribly. But I have to say that the thought of dating and falling in love again kind of does have it's exciting aspects and I can see where she's coming from.

Ultimately the best part was just seeing her again. She looked so beautiful and I missed her smile like crazy. I felt a little bit like when we first met. I really hope we can work things out. I'm optimistic after our short time together tonight that we can.

I am glad to hear you are so optimistic love, and sorry it has come to this. But the councelling sessions will help and as long as you are both open and willing to change, there is GREAT hope!! She does sound like a beautiful woman whom you love, and while this is a big hiccup, hopefully it will make you both happier and your marriage stronger.

Take care, and I am thinking of you!

Good luck.

I have spent large portions of my life on both sides of the porn fence, and so I think I'm qualified to give my personal experience regarding this issue. I know I can't speak for others, and my personal experiences don't necessarily speak for everyone on average (though the studies I've looked at certainly do indicate that I'm part of the norm), but I can definitely speak to what I've seen in my own life, with and without porn.

Porn has made me a better person. Whenever I went for long stretches without looking at it, years at a time, there was always a sexual tension in my interactions with the opposite sex. There was an innate desire to objectify the real women I interacted with, and a war within myself to avoid doing so. Each woman I met was a potential sex gratification tool, and I hated that. Then I met porn and it all changed. With my lustful desires satisfied, my involuntary innate needs no longer worked themselves into my daily life. I found it light-years easier to treat the women I knew with respect and dignity, as equal human beings just like me. I found myself interested for the first time in women's rights and equal treatment - something I hadn't cared much about before. It was like half the human race suddenly appeared that wasn't there before.

In addition to all the psychological improvements, I also noticed a lack of side-effects. None of the women in the porn I looked at got pregnant, no STDs passed between us, we didn't find ourselves in any emotional involvement that needed to be worked out or terminated, we didn't even exchange any money. There was literally nothing there, except a willing service and a need being met.

Some people claim there is a danger in porn, and that is that it might distort a person's perception of reality. I understand the theory behind this claim, and admit it might be true for some people, but I don't see it in my experience. I love reading fiction, I love watching movies, I enjoy tales full of exaggeration and drama, but I know where the line is drawn between that and reality. I often think about the movie "Groundhog Day" with Bill Murray. My wife and I watch it every February 2nd. At the end of the movie Murray becomes a sort of superhero perfect guy with amazing talents, so perfect that he is able to get and unwooable woman to fall in love with him in a single day. Could I ever possibly match up with such a high standard? Never. Does that mean the movie Groundhog Day has ruined mine and my wife's ability to have a real and normal relationship? Of course not. We're both mature adults, and we both know the difference between fantasy and reality.

It's true, some women are offended when their husbands look at porn, feeling like they're somehow not good enough, like their husbands shouldn't have to look at anyone or anything else, like they've been outclassed by an unachievable fantasy. They feel jealous of a woman their husband has not only never met, but likely has no desire to ever meet - a woman whom he more than likely considers every bit as fictional as Phil Connerson in Groundhog Day. They then expect him to sacrifice harmless fantasy that fulfills a biological need in a perfectly safe manner.

The big thing the wife in this case needs to learn is that it's not all about sex. Her husband has most likely already learned that there is so much more to a meaningful relationship than sexuality. Sex is something you do in a relationship, but it shouldn't be the centerpiece around which the rest of the relationship revolves, and neither member of the relationship should feel like it's their right to hijack the sexuality of the other member. They might even be surprised that the more they support the other member in doing what makes them happy, the more positive genuine attention they'll receive in return.

If your wife insists on hijacking your porn consumption, an act I consider harmful and wrong, I propose hijacking something of equal value in return. I know this sounds counterproductive, but I promise you, again from personal experience, if you give 100% in a case like this, your spouse will never return the favor. Your confidence and sense of self-worth will plummet as she feels like she is doing nothing wrong. She needs to know what it feels like to be the receiving end of this abuse, or it will never end until the day you die. It's very simple. You consider porn harmless and the church harmful. She considers the church harmless and porn harmful. Tell her that you will give up porn if she gives up the church. This way you're both giving up something important strictly for the sake of the other person. If she insists on doing nothing to understand your point of view and continuing in her bad habit, then you will do the same.

It's perfectly fair, and there can only be three possible outcomes. 1) She decides she can't live in a balanced relationship and divorces you, at which point you avoid a lifetime of emotional abuse. 2) She learns that she was wrong to try to control you, and learns to tolerate your porn habit and loves you all the more for tolerating her activity in the church.

There are many possible reasons why some women don't like porn and don't want their partner to be involved in it. It's not all about insecurity and fear although that might play some part in your situation. Some of us women, myself included, just find it to be a sexually obese habit and it completely turns us off. You are less attractive and it is repulsive to us. Just like many men find obesity a turn off. Some claim they can't get it up for a fat girl.

A basic need for women is to feel beautiful and sexually attractive. We want your sexual attention. It turns us on. Sorry but it turns many of us off when you give it to another girl, fantasy or real. "I hope I get a guy that loves porn said no woman ever."

So yes it might be unfair for your wife to not want you involved but it is still something that may make you less attractive to her. And on a side note if she does have insecurities and fears why would you want to participate in something that feeds those fears in her. It sounds like she has always felt this way about porn and perhaps you were never honest with her in the beginning about your porn use.

Honesty is always key in a relationship so don't promise her something you can't keep because she will eventually find out. Isn't honesty one of the biggest problems all of us have when it cane to us leaving the church? Don't become the very thing you hated. I applaud you for your honesty so far. Your sexual habits affect your wife no matter how you try to spin it. Not all women have a problem with porn just like some guys prefer heavier girls. If you can't learn to give yourself selflessly to your wife perhaps you will make a more compatible choice for a partner the second time around.

I just think it's ironic how many guys profess that porn isn't a big deal but they can't seem to give it up when they do have a sexual partner. Perhaps you could explain your sexual needs to your wife and let her know that you would like to fulfill them with her first and if she isn't up for sex maybe she could just watch you masterbate or help you out with that. If it proved to be too much for her she might be open to the idea of you using porn.

So what you're saying is that if a wife is obese, it's her fault if her husband decides to leave her over it. She shouldn't have been so selfish to let herself become obese in the first place, and the husband's paranoia about her weight and telling her how much it repulsed him had nothing to do with it all. There isn't a man alive who could possibly be attracted to an obese woman, end of discussion. And the solution is to be honest about your porn use, because if you're just honest your wife is going to be understanding of why you used it and won't allow her self-image or level of attraction towards you be affected by it at all.

phbbbbth...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2014 05:40PM by anonymous1.

Honestly, coming down on men who watch porn like you just did is exactly like coming down on women who are obese. Do you really think the solution is to simply tell women to stop getting fat? Are you really unable to understand what you're saying?

No I don't have a problem with men who watch porn. I just don't want to be in a sexual relationship with one. It's a personal preference. And I'm a heavier girl so I will be sure to find a guy that doesn't mind that either. My point is that we can all be who we are and find someone who is compatible with us. As a full figured woman I don't want a guy to be with me if he isn't attracted to me. Make sense. But I totally understand that plenty, maybe the majority of men aren't attracted to me. I am still allowed to find things unattractive also.

You know what, I just had an epiphany. I think her repulsion against porn is no different whatsoever than her attraction to the church. It's classic conditioning from a very early age. She was taught that porn is bad, it makes men filthy, and it degrades women. I think much of women in society is trained to think this but objectively there's really no reason to. *Here's where the defense mechanisms will kick in for a lot of women.*

As much as I can present all the logic in the world as to why the church is false and her still not understand or believe it, I can also explain logically about how I don't give a flying flip about the woman I just watched undress other than it fulfills a *carnal* need that would otherwise eat at me like a vulture on a carcass, but I do care about my wife just as deeply regardless of what I just watched.

It all goes over her head, in both situations.

The more and more I ponder our relationship, the more I think it won't work. And NOT just because of the porn, but simply because she is so lockstep in line with every standard the church preaches across the board and rarely has a thought of her own about things because much like other threads on this board have stated "adult members have the minds of children" which is so true about my wife, that I cannot live in cohabitation with a person like this, not after I've realized what I have over the past couple of months.

I know plenty of active women in the church who are much more liberal, forgiving, and "not as childlike in thinking" than my wife, sad to say. I love her for the relationship we've had but I think the way things are headed it may be over. And it's sad and extremely difficult because we've shared our lives together for nearly 7 years.

I've been thinking a lot about you. I'm female, married 20+ years. We left the church about 9 years ago. When we were still active I learned my DH had a "porn problem". Devestation. Partly because it meant he was not a good priesthood holder. Mostly because I took it personally. Wasn't I good enough, attractive enough? DH tried to explain and I just could not get it. I'm still a little on the fence about porn - but I don't really want to get into that here. Subject for another post. Eventually I understood that my husband had needs that I could not always fulfill - maybe I was not there, maybe I was not "in the mood". A lot like "anonymous 1" described from the male viewpoint above. I appreciated that he did not "require" me to perform, I appreciated that he did not cheat on me, I appreciate that he has needs that were different than mine. How did I come to terms with this? It took a while. I needed to understand it from his perspective, but in terms that I could understand (I need to release this tension - when you do not want my attentions, what do you expect of me?) also I needed to be reassured that it wasn't about me - that he viewed porn stars as not reality, that having sex with me was better and more fulfilling, that my reality was better than them.

One thing I've found really intriguing since I've been on the site is the idea of being in love with the role vs. being in love with the person. So often issues similar to yours come down to is she in love with you or your priesthood role? I think it is a fair question to ask. Do you love me because I can take you to the Temple or do you love me because I want to spend every day of my life with you? Do you love me because I can baptize my children or do you love me because I dedicate myself to their physiccal and emotional support. If she is in love with the role, you have no relationship, but if she is in love with you, you have a chance.

Your story brings back memories of a difficult time. I hope you are able to pull through. It is hard to write, because there is so much more I wish I could say. Porn is so loaded. You are normal, she is normal for her mindset. You seem really willing to see it from her perspective, I hope she can try to see things through your eyes.

My thoughts were along the same as yours after leaving the church. I might add a tidbit regarding porn -- it's so very, very addictive.
(See my earlier post on this thread)
Advise everyone to use "moderation in all things." Once you are addicted it'll be far, far more difficult to control than to just control it beforehand. Limit it to once or twice a month, no more.

Don't risk falling into the addiction dungeon. Very, very difficult to get out! You'll go thru hell and not realize you have actually damaged your organ by masturbating too much. And you will no longer desire a partner. Bye Bye to being able to have an intimate, loving partner. = Life alone.

I find it ironic that men are accused of objectifying women, valuing them only for their body. Yet women do this to themselves more than men.

Apparently women think that because men look at porn, that they will leave their wife, because they think their body is all their husband sees in their relationship, and he likes the porn body better. The insecurity of women is because they place greater value on their looks and body than do men.

If a man thought this way, he would think his wife only values him for his money. So anytime his wife looked at stuff another man provides (with big money), he should feel insecure and fear she will leave him. Is that what you women will do?

My wife watches shows with fancy homes and furniture, etc, which I cannot provide. Should I tell her how dirty and evil she is, and how disgusting is her lust for material things? Is that how women want to be helped with their "shopping problem"?

I should actually fear that more, as most divorces are over money, and most are initiated by women. But for some reason men don't spend a lot of time worrying about that. There is no shaming and banning of advertisements (porn) that encourage spending money. BYU probably even has a marketing department.

Not only do women fantasize about material things, they also fantasize about movie stars and characters in romance novels. Should I be paranoid about that? Will she leave me for Fabio?

Ever read a steamy romance novel? Fascinating that as long as there is no nude images, a book can be quite explicit, even available in the public library. So apparently the fantasies of women are fine, but men are disgusting pigs.

As I see it, generally speaking, to get power, men are busy out conquering the world. Not real great with relationships and manipulating others. Women gain power by emotional manipulation and shame and by withholding sex.

Shame others to get power, all the while crying victimization to get more power.

Ironic that the church gives more power to women, despite the accusations that it is oppressive. The men are just puppets doing what the women want - bashing men, telling them weekly how disgusting they are.

Many here share that disgust. There are more women now who realize this has all gone too far:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w__PJ8ymliw