> Does it matter if youre excommunicated or resigned, as long as you are out?
> Does it influence your relationships in predominantly mormon communities?
To the first question I would answer, it depends on you. What do YOU care about and what/who is important to you. There are many who really just do not care.
Resigning is basically saying that it is YOUR choice to leave the Church.
Being Excommunicated is the Church pushing you out. Anyone excommunicated is often perceived to have committed some heinous sin, usually adultery. Unless you really go out of your way to try to get people to leave the Church, then your reason for leaving most assuredly be assumed to be sin.
Prior to the "greatest apostasy since the days of Kirtland", members simply could not fathom anyone leaving because they no longer believed. It had to be because of sin or offense. Excommunication just confirms in their mind that it had to be sin.
So, if you care how people see your departure, then yes it matters. If you don't then it doesn't. Simple as that.
Having not lived in a predominantly LDS environment, I will let other posters comment on that.
I agree it is a totally individual thing. For me I like the fact that I CHOSE to leave and resigned. I chose to join (more fool me) but after a SHOCKING marriage breakup and divorce, I was stunned and VERY angry when I was told by a member of the SPcy, that they would not dissolve my temple marriage until I was sealed to someone else. I said "BUt I CHOSE to marry in the temple, now I CHOOSE a temple divorce", but they wouldn't listen. I guess their thinking was that as I NEEDED a bloke to get me into the CK, that my husband would do if no one else was available. If only they KNEW, my husband could have called me till he was blue in the face and I wasn't going ANYWHERE!!!!! What a croc, as I need anyone to get me into any sort of heaven. The God I beleive is NOT that picky!!!!
SOooooo, a few years later when I had sorted a lot of things out in my head, I CHOSE to exit the LOT!!!
It FELT GOOOD!!!!!!!!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2014 05:58PM by fluhist.
I was in the same predicament as fluhist, only I was told that my children, born years later were automatically sealed to my wife-beater temple ex.
It felt so good to write that letter, and to quote the CHI, that states that "all temple ordinances and blessings are revoked." I declared my temple marriage to be NULL AND VOID, as it should have been the first time the thug beat me and put me in the hospital. After 20 years of trying, and even after marrying a temple-worthy Mormon, and bearing his children, I could never get a temple divorce. Finally--I gave it to myself, by God!
I was talking to a very open minded counselor (who was LDS) right near the end of my mission. I was considering leaving early and he said this,
"Going home early is a choice you should make, it is not something you want to have happen to you"
It stuck with me. The idea that I should be in charge of what happens, not allow others to make those decisions. And was one of the deciding factors of why I did leave early (even though I still mostly believed at the time).
People will judge you regardless though. To Mormons those that resign are just as much sinners as those that are excommunicated, there is really little difference in the view of a TBM.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2014 07:36PM by nonsequiter.
Since having the cloud of excommunication over you can affect other parts of your life... relationships, employment, etc. It has to be considered. If I were called in for a disciplinary hearing, I'd resign verbally straightaway, then in writing. That way they can't legally proceed with any exing without risking you suing the church. Making a verbal resignation to a church leader such as a bishop or SP in front of witnesses is legally protective. The letter would then make it official at the COB.
As far as the mythology goes, I think it is equivalent. I'm resigning as soon as I'm no longer living in my in-law's basement -- probably this summer. Need some distance as I face that fallout.
I was excommunicated as an apostate. My excommunication was announced ward wide. It didn't affect my work at all. It hurt my family greatly. They were shunned because of me. And I felt uneasy in public as if I was being haunted by the ghastly people from the court of non-love. It took a few months before I became comfortable in my own skin while in public.
Excommunication has dire consequences.
If you can, resign your LDS membership. Don't wait for someone to take it from you, and don't set yourself up to fail so you can become excommunicated.
I remember an Exed Bishop (for adultery) who kept showing up to church every so often. The contempt for him was thick, and he was pathetic in still coming to church, trying to associate with these anuses that called themselves Christians.
The only resigned or wanting-to-resign people I knew were inactives. We'd get a report that someone wanted to resign. No one thought too much about it: Someone we didn't know wanted to resign. It was a win for us: No more time wasted tracking these lost causes. And our ward list would be cleaned up, less encumbered with names for false leads.
The Resigned member is a non-person in the sense that they are put out of mind as unimportant in any way.
The Exed member I think gets an extra dose of contempt: A real spiritual and moral loser.
I think it would bother my mom even more if I resigned than if I were exed. If I were exed for anything other than murder or apostasy, she'd look upon the situation as my being human. If I resigned, I would be, in her mind, permanently rejecting everything she taught me. She handles my "temporary" rejection of Mormonism reasonably well. my informal "quitting" is the least of the evils to her
I think the idea is that once my wife and I are gone,if we haven't found our way to the church, the nieces and nephews can have my wife's ordinances done for her and can be sealed for us vicariously. If I've resigned or formally apostasized, is that even a possibility?
Interestingly, my dad, former mission president and Motab member, is far more relaxed about it and is more accepting that there might be more than one path to heaven. Both my parents have multiple decendants who crossed the prairies with various handcart and wagon expeditions to get to Utah, so they're both invested in that regard.
"Both my parents have multiple decendants who crossed the prairies with various handcart and wagon expeditions to get to Utah, so they're both invested in that regard."
The multi-generational scam. Think of the scope here: If I can fool someone with a sham religion, then that person and his or her descendents will be my bitches in perpetuity. They're invested.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2014 07:08AM by derrida.
I agree completely, Pathway. You brought up all the points I thought of as I read the subject line and hadn't even read your post yet.
Technically, it shouldn't matter at all.
But for myself, it meant the difference between being pushed out and having my choice taken away from me, or being in control of the situation and leaving because I decided to, on my own terms.
Thanks catnip, glad you liked my saying, it is TRUE!!! In fact I will share this DELICIOUS fantasy I h ve on occasion. I must start by saying I have nothing but DISDAIN and DISGUST for my ex-husband.
My fantasy is that he calls me to the holey (spelling is on PURPOSE!!) veil in the after life, I go up and do the whole points of fellowship thingey that I did when I married him - with the knee etc. Once I have ascertained where his anatomy is behind the veil I whip out the rusty sardine tin I always have on hand in my fantasies, and use it to sever certain parts of his anatomy, if you get what I mean. Doncha love it? Castration through the veil, the ULTIMATE revenge!!!
I ASSURE you that in real life I am not at ALL violent, but in my fantasies I do what I want!!! Heh heh!
On an totally different subject. How is your friend? Please read my last entry in the "My friend is dying" thread. I am just out the door to go see Kathy. She is doing really well! I hope you have some good news about your friend too! Take care!
Years ago the option of resigning was not something that appeared on offer. The only way to get out officially was the be exed. In my own case it was a wonderful opportunity to tell a captive audience, the entire stake presidency and high council, my reasons for leaving and I relished it. The culmination of my presentation was the freeing statement that "You are not excommunicating me. Since I asked for this "court", I am excommunicating the Mormon Church from my life in this process." If they have no power and authority over you how you get out is irrelevant.
I'm glad I was ex'ed. It showed me the LD$ church's true colors. The SP wrote me a letter saying I could continue paying tithing through a worthy member. In other words, they wanted my money, but not me.
From their point of view, I don't think it matters at all. They preach that they have the "only true church on earth" and that my chances of the CK were dashed by no longer being a member of it.
And yet not one person, inside my family or from anywhere else has tried to get me to come back. Maybe they think gay people are "lost causes," so what's the point?
If you resign, it is your choice, and you are controlling the situation. If they excommunicate you, the assumption is that you did something wrong. The rumour mill will grind it up and spit it back out in the form of gossip, with a sordid story wherein you likely sinned by committing adultery or some such.
It's a ballsy move to resign because it makes a big statement to everyone around you that you no longer agree with the tenets of the church. I really wish my two nephews would step up and do it so that I don't have to be the only one taking the heat. It would communicate big to my family that I'm not crazy. But they won't. And the TBMs in my family are fine so long as the nephews stay on the records they aren't bugged like I am. I will be honest when I say I resent it a little. I know it is an individual choice; I just wish they were more brave.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2014 11:53AM by snuckafoodberry.