Probably a weird question, but I grew up in a really sheltered tbm house hold. I usually kept to myself, when I got home I just went to my room all day- so I never really got in trouble. I did what I was told. My younger sister had a different personality than mine, and she was pretty confrontational, even when she was a little kid.
My step mom was pretty abusive to her, but I didn't know. I thought abuse was "just beating the crap out of some one for no reason." That's how they labeled abuse. Even when my step-mom threw a toaster at my chest for some thing I did that was an accident, I didn't think that was abuse.
When I moved out I learned that there were more types of abuse that I now see my b**** step mom did to my sister. She would send her to bed with out dinner for no reason other than she didn't want to be around her. My sister was way too thin to be withheld that many meals. I would feel horrible and want to sneak her some thing, but I was afraid that I would be punished. I didn't think it was abuse, I was brainwashed to think that she some how "deserved" it.
She was emotionally abused- being told over and over how bad she was- she wasn't allowed to be around my step-moms kids. she would be shoved around, and my step- mom would say that she was just trying to "restrain" her. She would sneak her anti-depressants not even prescribed to my sister in her juice. She wasn't allowed to close her bedroom door or lock the bathroom door.
She wasn't allowed to be around my step-mom with out my dad there- my step mom would tell her to leave when she got home from school. One day, she left for good. She ran away for two years. That's just the stuff I know about, I blocked out a lot of stuff- like I said I just hid in my room.
My sister called CPS on her a few times, and I have no idea how she got away with it. Maybe because emotional abuse/neglect is hard to prove, I don't know. She had bruises on her at times, but they would claim that she bruised herself or they were trying to "restrain" her. I assumed if CPS didn't find any thing, she wasn't being abused. I was told my sister was making things up, and my step-mom was the real victim. She was a "good mormon" mom, and always put on a nice face at church, but she was a huge b**** at home.
When I moved out of that house, I learned about other types of abuse. I learned that step parents are more likely to be abusive (now, I'm not labeling step-parents, I know there are some wonderful step-parents out there).
I feel guilt that I never turned them in to CPS- and thought my sister was not abused. I don't know how I was so brainwashed.
My step-mom and dad still don't admit to any abuse. Every one except for me thinking my sister is still making this all up or deserved what she got. My dad chooses this ***** over his kids every day, and she knows it and will put him in situations to choose her over his kids.
Once my youngest sister and brother move out, I have no intention of having any contact with them other than phone conversations with my dad. I don't have any worries about my youngest brother and sister- they are her own kids, she treats them good.

I think most abusers feel they are entitled to act the way they do - that's how they justify and overlook the harm they are really doing. Mormon culture may not encourage abuse but it certainly provides the right elements for it to fester and grow. They teach a sense of entitlement, the idea that they are superior and chosen and the thought that appearances are all that really matter. If they can fake the right appearance, they can get away with a lot of crap at home. Faking the right appearance is a real talent most abusers have.

I'm really sorry your sister and you had to go through that. You can still be there for her now by telling her you now understand what she went through/is going through. You can learn more about these kinds of abuse and how to heal. I think a lot of Mormon kids come second to the church in their parents eyes. It's more common than it appears, with all their claims of being a family church. But the financial, emotional and time pressures the church puts on parents really can bring out the worst in people. Or allow the worst in people who would be just as bad in any other religion. And please don't forget to take care of yourself and allow yourself to heal. You may not have caught the brunt of it but having to watch that and live with that tension is a kind of abuse in and of itself. Please know you didn't deserve to be raised in that mess and that you deserve love and healing too.

CA girl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Mormon culture may not encourage abuse but it certainly
> provides the right elements for it to fester and
> grow. They teach a sense of entitlement, the idea
> that they are superior and chosen and the thought
> that appearances are all that really matter.


Just a side note: they are also taught that, via the Holy Ghost, their thoughts and opinions come directly from God, so they cannot be challenged.

I, like so many others, was beaten and humiliated non-stop by parents who were 100% convinced that what they were doing was per direct permission from God.

I am always genuinely surprised when someone has grown up in a healthy home (Mormon score here: zero)

The abuser does not even see the evil (yes, evil) perpetrated.
Because the abuser is completely divorced from what he/she has actually become, as a person.
This is the mechanism.
The first thing Mormonism does is to teach us how to not see ourselves as we actually truly are.
The abuser can then inflict enormous evil upon sentient beings in perfect ignorance, feeling righteously justified.

CA girl is right.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2014 02:16PM by zenjamin.

Sounds like she abused you and your dad too. She came in to your family and caused it harm. I wouldn't acknowledge her as a part of my family at all. I would view her as more of an unwelcome guest I had to tolerate. She sounds like a bully. She isn't your kin.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2014 02:29PM by snuckafoodberry.

I didn't realize how abusive my upbringing was until I had a son of my own. Why didn't he require beatings to keep him in line? Why didn't I feel the urge to call him a weak loser or a follower of the Devil? Why did I desire to share my prosperity with him, providing him with the lunch money and allowance that I never got? Nor did he feel the need to escape my house and wander along creek banks all day.

The answer was that my parents were selfish abusers. It took me almost a lifetime to figure it out. When confronted, the abusers say, "We did as well as we could with what we knew at the time. No use stirring up old troubles. This will be worked out in the afterlife. You weren't easy to put up with either."

I feel the same with my children. It's not difficult not to slap your child around and verbally insult them all day when you love them. I don't get it.

I also got that excuse 'we did the best we could with what we had.'

But you had the truth of the gospel of jesus christ. the priesthood - god's authority to act in his name.

is that not MORE than the average non-mormon parent who didn't physically and emotionally abuse their kids (and also let other adults in the church do the same)?

Don,

My parents said word for word that same thing to me. Then they topped it off by telling me to get over it.

I didn't have that conversation with them until I was 50.

Like you, it was when I had my own kids I realized how horrible my parents were to me. I could never look at that sweet little two year old and think of a reason to beat her with a belt.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2014 05:54PM by madalice.

I was forty-nine, alice, before I really confronted my abusive father. I had to do it with a letter, because my nerves were shattered. I couldn't talk out the horrors of my upbringing.

In the letter I told my father to either treat me like a son or leave me alone. He left me alone. I recently heard his heart is failing, which is surprising as I've never known it to work.

I was abused and neglected by both dad and his wife for five years when I lived with them. I bought my own clothes, paid for my own school lunches, and even bought my own personal hygeine products. There was too much to go into here, but when I finally escaped after high school I never went back.

A few years ago I confronted my dad about it all and the tendency he and his wife have to completely disregard me and my family but their sons they had together are given absolutely everything. My children could go without meals and they didn't care. My brothers' children? Not a chance. They even bought one brother a house. I've never received a dime from them.

Dad told me to just get over it.

I hung up the phone and have not had much communication with him since. I know I'll never see him or his wife again. I'm okay with that.

I grew up in a household where my mother screamed constantly, for hours, escalating rage. No exaggeration. My best friend's household had a similar level of screaming, so I thought all homes worked the same as mine, knowing that some were way worse, but I thought mine was typical and normal. I remember later on in high school going to friends' homes and being quite bewildered at how calm everything was and kids actually had conversations with their parents.

I think my mother encouraged a division between my sister and I. We were enemies for awhile. Today we're best friends and we still come up with things that happened growing up that neither of us knew about. I really resented my sister for creating arguments with my mother and making my life harder. A lot of times my sister was just trying to have a normal relationship and talk to my mom, but if my mom knew what was going on in our lives, she would store it up as ammo, use it against us. I figured that out pretty quickly, but my sister did not.

I'd like to say that my step parents are great. I'm not terribly close to my stepmother but I adore her. My stepfather took on a more fatherly role and was a good guy, though now, I don't always like him all that much. I fear my ex-husband marrying a wicked witch we hear so many stories about, but hopefully if he remarries, it won't turn out to be a nightmare.

Your poor sister. I holed up in my room too and tried to be out of the house as often as allowable. It was so nice to be able to hang out at my friends' and not have to deal with being screamed at and grounded for no reason.

I have a mother who is absolutely charming---in public. In private, she is a control freak, a demanding, bad-tempered shrew.

I'm in my 50's now,living independently, and I've come to realize that I cannot have contact with her for an indefinite period of time. The only time she wants to talk to me is to give me orders or run errands for her. She is a diva to the MAX!

Sad thing is, she's in her mid-80's and not the best of health. I really don't want to have to divorce myself from her when her life could end at any time; in spite of everything, I'd like to have at least a "civil" relationship with her before she goes.

But, repeatedly, she has shown me that civil is not a word in her vocabulary. I've opted to just leave Mrs. Jekyll and Hide alone, for my own sanity.

And I didn't get it as bad as my older siblings, but it was still plenty.

I've heard having children triggers a lot of trauma, especially when they get to the age the parent started suffering abuse.

The line "We did the best we could with what we had" is a total cop out. How about not hitting your kids? Then I see all these memes touting, "I was spanked and turned out fine, respected adults, etc...." Yeah, because you were too afraid to do anything out of line!

And yes, to watch your sister go through that is a form of abuse heaped on you. When I was very young, my mom left the 4 youngest in the house by themselves. My brother T is a sadistic, abusive jerk. He started beating on my sister, threw her down the stairs, gave her a black eye. She was screaming in pain so loudly, the neighbor girls came over and took her out to their house.

When our mom came home, she flipped out that my sister left the house, never mind the black eye or other bruises. We learned 2 lessons that day: 1. T could do whatever he wanted and get away with it 2. Mom doesn't care if you get hurt, you better do what she says regardless of what happens when she's not around.

Is it any wonder my 8 year old self hid my broken arm from my parents for 6 hours because I was afraid of getting in trouble?

I couldn't stand to think about, acknowledging it was quite literally unthinkable. Communicating about it was unspeakable.

Yep. My dad was very passive-aggressive...classic narcissist. We grew up somewhat emotionally stunted and all 5 of us had difficulties adjusting to adult life, we've all had at least 1 divorce each. All of us were raised to be very submissive and have endured abusive relationships...we naturally linked up with people who were domineering.

A few years ago he told me that "we could've asked all of you to repay us for the things we gave you." That was the first time I realized just how selfish he was. It was an eye-opener for sure and helped me see a lot of things differently.

When I was little, I was told to stay out of the way and be quiet. Except when there were chores to do. When he was in the workshop, he'd order me to hand him certain tools and leave stuff alone. I never learned how to fix anything, he never took the time to teach. When I got to high school I enrolled in a welding class because I wanted to know how to do it. I had watched dad weld things dozens of times (arc and gas welder) but he never taught me how to do it. The irony didn't occur to me until I was far into adulthood. The only thing I learned from him was how to mow the lawn (but not change the oil or sparkplug or sharpen the blade). Oh and I also learned to treat women like servants.

He never said he loved us or wanted us to be happy and have good lives. We were just expenses. He treated our mom like she was his servant. And she was the dutiful wife from the '50s who cooked and cleaned and raised the kids while dad read the paper or worked in his workshop every evening. Mom clipped coupons to keep expenses down. All our clothes were cheapest you could find. We had a big garden. Nothing wrong with that, but dad went out one day and bought a boat so he could go fishing. Just your typical dysfunctional American family!

I have known a LOT of people who were severely abused and/or neglected but didn't use that term to describe it. Many people seem to think of child abuse as something that happens "out there" somewhere, and not something that is happening to them. So even in childhood, even WHILE BEING ABUSED, children are already groomed to trivialize what is happening to them. It's horrifying how little it takes to totally screw up a child's mind.

I was disciplined by my parents using a whip for any "back talk", "sassing", "whining", or other non-accepted child behavior. My parents started spanking and whipping at such a young age that I cannot figure out when it started. Man, was I sacred when the whip came out! I was receiving teacher training before I realized that this was abuse. I could never strike a child in any way. Nor could I even spank a dog or animal. Maybe this is why I have anxiety problems today. I have trouble taking on projects and responsibilities because I'm so fearful of making mistakes. It took me a long time to figure what this was all about.

Yes and No. I did and didn't know it. I'm an adult though.... when I lived at my in-laws house.... I was treated badly with emotional/ psychological abuse by my in-laws and sometimes my sis-in-law. Since me and husband were always so poor we didn't have a choice about moving anywhere else for a long time, so we had to depend on them. I ended up hiding out in my room for most of the time living there, except when I couldn't. I usually "turned the other cheek". My in-laws would play the victim when I did nothing to them. I had to listen to my younger BIL get Beaten by my FIL and felt I couldn't / shouldn't say anything about it. (Because he's someone else's child, I thought I couldn't interfere) Those memories stay with me and I never talk about it to anyone, the most I ever said was FIL is way too harsh on younger BIL. And my husband's ex-wife, she made a nightmare for both of us. Because they had a child together, husband and ex-wife had to stay in touch (understandably- for the child). BUT she was VERY aggressive and made up horrible stories to CPS about things we had NEVER done and would never do to my husband and his ex's child. Though I never did horrible things to my step-son, because of all those false/unfounded CPS reports, it Does put a huge strain on how Not-Close I want to be to my Step-son. I have to think about my own Child with my husband. Even my husband was psychologically abuse to me so.... I do what I have to do. I think we are Fairly normal in our own household. Husband and I do not yell-fight as much, and we would Never Beat our own children. I've typed a lot, I'll finish for now.

Hell I knew it. I was thrown through closet doors, whipped with a cord from an iron, back handed repeatedly, back handed some more, smacked with switches, sticks, belts, items in my room destroyed because I hadn't cleaned my room, when I was 16 I was punched in the face because I had a D on a report card, shall I continue?

My parents would purposefully make crap for dinner they knew we wouldn't eat, and then make us sit at the table all night if we didn't eat it. I was like Paul Maclean, but instead of oats, I made my stand at liver.

I recall, maybe when I was 12, my dad and his neighbor friend bragging to each other about the beatings they put on their kids. But trust me, my mother could be just as brutal.

To be fair, my parents were not active "Saints", so I cannot claim that an ecclesiastical "authority" didn't do his job, no I just got the scheist kicked out of me.

Tensolator- YIKES! I'm glad you at least KNEW what your parents were doing was abuse. It hurts just hearing you describe it. Hope you got out of there fast, fast, fast.

I used to volunteer for a child abuse agency and because of that, my friend came to me one day to tell me about how her dad was possibly abusing her sister physically. She really didn't know if it was abuse or just discipline.

We just thought our parents were "mean." We both got punished for getting less than A on anything, for refusing to eat even the gaggiest foods in the world, for daring to stay up ten seconds after our bedtimes, or trying to read by flashlight under the covers. It never occurred to us that this was abuse; heck, everybody's parents were mean, weren't they?

But we both resolved - as schoolgirls - that we would never treat our own children the way we were treated. We would love and praise our children. We didn't have actual role models. All we had was the way we WISHED we had been treated.

And as adults, we did as we resolved. We have wonderful, loving children, who have become outstanding parents themselves as well as law-abiding citizens. Maybe there is some justice after all.

" for refusing to eat even the gaggiest foods in the world,"


Oh, God. Repressed memories. My step mom was the WORST cook. Most of her meals would make me gag, and once I even got sick. She said the next time I better "aim for my plate because I would have to eat my vomit" the next time that happened.

To this day there are certain textures I just can't eat.

Growing up I thought I must be a bad person to deserve all the whippings and emotional head games that were played on me. I used to wish I had different parents. When I was 14 I tried to get put into foster care so I could live with a friend. My parents put on such a good show for cps. Even my siblings lied for them. If they hadn't they would have gotten a beating. I couldn't get out of that house fast enough. The irony is my parents took in foster kids after I left home. None of them liked it there, and didn't stay long.

My parents are still alive. Haven't changed a bit. They don't know my kids. I wouldn't let my kids be alone with them. I didn't trust them to not beat my kids. My kids have never been hit. I never had a reason to hit them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2014 04:09AM by madalice.

It sounds to me as if the OP's sister has been gaslighted her entire life. I know exactly what that feels like. My dad and stepmonster also refuse to acknowledge the damage they did to my sister and I. We didn't know how abused we were until she had kids and then both of us looked at each other and wondered, How in the hell could our folks have treated us like that? What assholes!

So there have been many times when we've had to re-live an experience because one of us wasn't there and has foggy memories about an incident. So we both tell our stories to help the other fill in the blanks, and then -- this is really important -- we acknowledge to one another that we WERE abused and it was NOT our fault and our parents were SELFISH JERKS and THAT'S NOT OUR FAULT but there was plenty of damage done. And you know what? Having those conversations, clearing up foggy, but painful memories, trying to understand from an adult's perspective and most especially, sharing the pain with one another has been really, really healing and cathartic. Almost as healing and helpful as postmo/exmo boards. ;>) Every now and then we sit down and unpack another Thing from our childhoods and shake our heads about our parents and then we move on.

So I think you would be doing your sister a really huge favor if you sat her down and acknowledged that A) she wasn't bad or crazy, because B) you were ALL abused and gaslighted to think you weren't, and C) had you been able to help her or do something to fix the situation, you would have. Obviously, you were a child too, and so unable to change anything or have any control over the situation, but acknowledging that helpless child is really helpful. I don't know if you or your sister has gotten any professional help, or what her adult relationships are like, but the two of you having a couple of memory lane conversations might be really great for you both, in the long run.

Yes, she has been gaslighted! And me. I didn't even know what gaslighted was until this year and that's exactly what they do. I told my dad about when she threw a toaster at me and she was like "that never happened, I HIT a toaster at you, but it did not hit you."


Like Happy on Happy Gilmore, they take some thing they did and spin it around so that it looks like you're crazy

What? I didn't *break* it, I was just testing its durability, and then I *placed* it in the woods because it's made of wood and I just thought he should be with his family.
^
See? Happy wasn't being out of control, he was doing some thing nice. You're the one who is crazy.

Yes - my parents took me out of school to home school the year I turned 14. I ended up doing the homeschooling, housework, laundry, cooking, baking, child care, etc for nine children and two adults. From the time I turned 13 until I was 17 my parents beat me every day for perceived wrongs. Whenever I left to go to college or someplace else, they would pull me back to the home because my duty was to the family. Eventually I was able to break the link by going into the Navy. I do NOT have fond memories of my parental units. I still have close ties to the brothers I raised--

Yes. I had a few teachers who picked up on it too, but I was in too deep and defended my parents of course.
They were very careful to keep it from being very overt. It was extremely covert after we became school aged.
The phrase "good thing you're too young to remember this" has been echoing around my head all morning. I wasn't too young. Possibly because this was said to me, I worked hard to remember.
The funniest thing... When my sister had her first kid and me and my parents travelled to visit them... My bro in law laid the baby on a blanket and then scooted the blanket around in small circles which made the baby pull funny faces...
My dad got physically sick over this. This, literally NOTHING like what he had done to us. He had to leave the room and take some pills. I hope this reaction was driven partly by guilt.
I went two weeks with a broken arm because "if it still hurts after your recital we can get it looked at". Yes, it still hurt like hell after my piano recital. An ace bandage I found and wrapped it with just wasn't cutting it. They, and I, were so lucky that it was not displaced because it would have needed to be rebroken at the three week mark by the time I was "worthy" of seeing a doctor. Of course if it was visibly deformed, someone might have believed me before that point.
I've heard "doing the best we could" too many times to count, but never an apology. Sometimes an offer to pay for medical treatment for old injuries that I "deserved" at the time for being such a sinful little child, but never any genuine apology. No, I will never accept any further involvement in my medical care, it would only be used against me somehow.

I blame a lot of this on the cult mostly because my mom would come back from RS talking about all the new child discipline methods she had learned. Sometimes she would deign to tell us about methods she decided were too harsh and would not use. The gleam in her eye gave away her pleasure at our fear. This was how she made sure we "knew" she was still a good parent despite the abuse and alienation she did choose to engage in. She could have done these other things that were described to us, but see, she didnt!
But truly, both my parents are just extremely selfish assholes. The cult just encourages this instead of encouraging people to do better.



And to the asshole who likes to find my posts and tell me he had it soooo much worse and I should be grateful, fuck off you nasty piece of shit! Continuing abuse into adulthood makes you as bad as your own parents.

WinksWinks, when that happens, report the post to admin and explain what's going on. You don't need that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2014 07:31PM by summer.

By the time I was a teenager, I realized how much my siblings and I were being abused, especially by our mother. She was abusive every day, while Dad was only abusive 3-4 times a year, but when he lost control he was hardcore scary.

It took me longer to realize the extent of the neglect. One of the vivid memories of my teenage years was getting my wisdom teeth pulled. I had to have it done at a dentist's office instead of an orthodontist, even though all four teeth were impacted, so I had local anesthesia instead of general and was awake for the whole thing. The dentist gave me enough pain meds to last a week and gave me one pill at his office. I went to sleep at home, and when I woke up the pain meds were gone. My mother had taken them.

It was also my experience to be mistreated by a stepparent.

My biological father died when I was a child, and my mother remarried when I was 12 years old. The man she married was in his late thirties and had never been married before or had any children of his own, or much experience with kids at all for that matter. He was nice when they were dating, but it didn't take long for him to start being mean after they got married. He wasn't necessarily a bad guy, and yes it'd be hard to become an instant father to an almost teenager, but truthfully--he was an awful stepfather.

A few times a month, he'd hit or slap me on the leg or arm hard enough to leave red, angry handprints on me. He was constantly getting mad and didn't have much patience for anything. Just about everything I did was scrutinized and criticized and there was a lot of yelling and emotional abuse as well. Ironically, I was a really good kid. I studied hard, got excellent grades, and never got into any sort of trouble. I was strong-willed, but mostly in the aspect that I simply stood up for myself. It didn't go over well with him the majority of the time.

One time, a woman in our ward who had been one of my previous YW leaders came to our house unexpectedly and wanted me to go for a drive with her. I was confused, but of course I went. After some small talk, she started asking me about my stepdad and if he was abusive, etc. I was so embarrassed, feeling somehow that it was my fault, and so I totally denied everything and asked her to take me back home. It was pretty awkward. Looking back, I realize she was just trying to help because she'd observed how he mistreated me.

Another time, when I was in high school, some kids I went to school with had dumped a whole bunch of shredded paper on our lawn as a prank. My stepdad was furious about it, and made me get the lawnmower out to clean it up, which I had no problem doing. However, I hadn't had much experience with the lawnmower and I accidentally ran over a sprinkler head and broke it. He was so incredibly mad about that, and yelled and screamed at me and told me how stupid I was, etc. Unbeknownst to him, our neighbor was in his garage and heard the whole thing as it happened. The next day, he approached my mom and told her how he'd heard everything, and how it made him uncomfortable and how he felt that it was abuse.

In addition, my aunt has told me on more than one occasion how my stepdad was not a good father figure to me at all. She herself had 4 young daughters when she divorced her husband because he had serious problems with drugs. She remarried a guy who is truly a gem of a man, and he has been the *best* stepfather to her girls...even through their teenage years. She felt bad for me because she could see the huge difference in how he treated her girls as opposed to how my stepdad treated me.

The crazy thing is that I think I blocked out a lot of what happened during those years because it was so painful. Sometimes my mom will talk about certain incidents that happened, and I have no recollection of them. Weird. I do know, however, that they've affected me greatly as an adult. I tend to be very defensive, and even if someone is simply trying to give me some innocent constructive criticism, I feel like I'm being attacked and sort of go into survival mode. There have also been times when my husband and I have gotten into heated arguments, and instinctively I shield myself as if he's going to hit me, which he's never done and would never do. It's just a reaction within me that I can't control, I suppose. In addition, I really feel like I missed out on having a father during my adolescent years, when I really could've used one. My stepdad was never there for me for anything.

He and my mother divorced when I was 18 and just going off to college. I couldn't have been happier that he and my mom were getting divorced. Because he and my mother had a child together however, my youngest sister, I'd occasionally see him at family events. It was always awkward, because he wasn't friendly to me, and I felt uncomfortable around him. He's since passed away. I didn't really feel anything when he died.

It's crazy how when we're growing up, we don't realize it's abuse. It's just the way it is. It's only when we get out of it, and see how it's affected us, that it dawns on us. But by that point, it's unfortunately too late.