Ok, I've been thinking about this for quite some time. Since every other story has been lied about and whitewashed, if someone can help me out on this I'd appreciate it.

Ok....picture it...a barren desert in Utah mid 1800's. A small group of roving humans roll up and declare that they are going to move in. And they do. They build a city, granite works, water works, sugar works, wine works, a MASSIVE temple...(and furnish it), etc..........all while being cut off from the States and the civilized world? These people were smart enough to build a city, but not smart enough to realize that pulling hand carts late in the season would kill them?

Something just doesn't sit right with me. Where did they get all their supplies just for the realities of building anything? Those folks pulling handcarts sure as hell weren't pulling any heavy machinery.

Obviously the SL valley had timber, water and granite. The folks brought horses and livestock to pull things and till the ground, but there are things like pully's, fittings, large tools, real physical equipment that people need to build structures. Where did all of that come from if people just had the bare necessities with them?

Thanks.

most of the pioneers were blue collar type of people with skills. One of my relatives helped build a tabernacle in Utah but he did it with his knowledge of building ships back in England. I think they just made do for the most part but whatever they needed, if people had the right skills, could also be made after the fact. How did non Mormons settle the West? They did it too somehow with similar supplies or lack thereof.

Basically the handcart pioneers that everyone associates with Mormon history were just some of the different groups that were organized.

It just so happens that the handcart pioneers were basically getting the shaft due to the church cheating out on not buying real wagons.

You can damn sure bet ol Brigham didn't pull no handcart

So true...BY...no handcart indeed.

Methinks that the "Saints" wanted their cake but wanted a toe in the frosting all at the same time. They hated the "States", but obviously they were still going to have to trade with them just to get things like linen, smelters, dad to day living things for thousands of people.

Seems to me they just wanted to remoteness just to have the theological and civiland of course sexual control over the masses but still enjoy the financial rewards of dealing with the "gentiles".

Great Salt Lake City became a convenient stopping place for emigrants bound for California. Mormons quickly adapted to become effective "horse traders" and most of the pioneers who entered the valley didn't arrive via handcart.

Horses and cattle on emigrant trains were often "spent" after the long walk, and the Saints would trade a fresh horse for two or three in need of rehabilitation. They also traded fresh vegetables, milk, and butter for badly needed supplies.

The Church also had operations at the beginning of the Overland Trail, and wealthy Mormons in England also contributed money to the church until the disclosure of polygamy in 1852.

Alexander Fancher, the captain of the ill-fated wagon train that was destroyed in the Mountain Meadows Massacre is known to have made two previous journeys to California, one via "the southern route."

A number of Mormons also operated freight services, and Will Bagley notes that one of Brigham Young's purchases included a considerable amount of "groceries" (translation: liquor). He actually diverted a rescue party sent to the aid of the Willie and Martin handcart companies trapped in the winter snows in Wyoming.

Emigration to Utah continued from 1847 until the completion of the transcontinental railroad, and even after that event, wagons still made the trek.

... to the rest of the United States:

"In January 1870 [a railroad] line was completed, connecting Salt Lake City to the national rail system. One of the benefits that the Mormon Church received from the coming of the railroad was the availability of low-cost transportation that would help to bring large numbers of its members to the new Zion. From places as distant as Europe, new members came by way of the ports of call along the East and Gulf coasts."

http://historytogo.utah.gov/utah_chapters/mining_and_railroads/railroadsinutah.html


Also, twenty years before the Salt Lake Temple was completed, a railway was available for the transportation of the granite blocks for the Temple from the quarries directly to the Temple site:

"During the summer of 1872 the Utah Southern began construction of a standard-gauge [railroad] line east from Sandy to the granite quarries in Little Cottonwood Canyon. On October 24, 1872 the Wasatch & Jordan Valley Railroad was incorporated to build a narrow-gauge line from Sandy to the mines further up Little Cottonwood Canyon. In November the Wasatch & Jordan Valley took over the Utah Southern grade and two months later they began laying track. On April 28 [1873], the line was completed to the quarries, at a new station appropriately called Granite. There was now an all-rail route from the granite quarries direct to Temple Square."

http://utahrails.net/utahrails/us-rr-1870-1881.php#heading_toc_j_3



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2014 02:54AM by Fetal Deity.

So.....then...SLC was certainly no "Kingdom on Earth", but rather a new extension of the USA thanks to wagon trains and the railroad.

The deeper I allow myself to question, the more I realize this whole thing is no different than any other territory being settled in the USA.

You know, to be honest, I'm tired of the settling of SLC being put on this massive pedistal...why not revere the settling of Boise Idaho, or Portland Oregon...did not the cattle have to work as hard or the horses get as tired to build those settlements?

There is nothing special about the LDS pioneers they were just one part of a massive push West in the development of the USA. Why not give everyone their due. Phooey on just one aspect of it.

... from the claim that the Salt Lake Valley was a wasteland when the pioneers arrived ... to the tale of the seagulls saving the pioneers from the crickets ... they're all lies or gross exaggerations.

Actually, when most people think of pioneers they think of the wagon trains headed to Oregon (which accounts for the vast majority of pioneers). Pretty much only mormons think of the mormon pioneers.

And it's always a challenge to overcome my "Utah ethno-centricity" and allow the Oregonians their rightful role in the history of the American West as well. The brainwashing runs deep, and even now I'm wanting to claim my ancestors' heritage while rejecting the religious dogma that brought them here.

Here are a couple of points for Lori to consider:

Utah was admitted to the Union as "slave territory" as part of the agreement that made California a state in 1849. Mormons don't talk about that much...

Brigham Young's decision, in 1857, to close the Overland Trail to California, was an act of pure treason by an appointed official of the Federal government.

Southern Utah settlements were a veritable chain of "speed traps" and such for unsuspecting emigrant trains using that route (that was before the Mountain Meadows Massacre). Fines were leavied, livestock vanished, and other questionable practices commonplace. Here's one story:

http://historytogo.utah.gov/salt_lake_tribune/history_matters/090201.html

>We Utahns love our past and occasionally celebrate the colorful history in pageants. Unfortunately, we often are long on pageantry and short on history. Consider the Benson Gristmill Pageant, recently held in Tooele Valley at one of Utah's most historic buildings on its 150th birthday. Given Utah's wealth of talented performers, the singing, dancing and music were sure to be first rate. But the claim that the Brothers Lee, "four strapping carpenters," built the mill glosses over some interesting Western history.

>There was a shortage of skilled labor in August 1850. So after Mormon Apostle Ezra Taft Benson advertised for men to build a milldam, he hired Lorenzo Custer, a non-Mormon bound for California, to do the job for $1,000. Benson later agreed to pay Custer and his partner, John Huntsman, an additional $200 each to raise the dam three feet higher. When Custer completed his work in the spring, Benson refused to pay him the final $500. Another emigrant named Treat charged that Benson had cheated him out of $400 in wages for his work on the mill.

--Will Bagley
(close friend and "retired" Mormon)

And an unqualified plug for two of the author's newer books on the larger history of the American West...

http://www.amazon.com/So-Rugged-Mountainous-California-1812-1848/dp/0806141034

http://www.amazon.com/With-Golden-Visions-Bright-Before/dp/0806142847

They didn't have just the bare necessities with them. Are you kidding? They had grand pianos, violins, other musical instruments, song books, all kinds of weaving equipment etc.
When they wanted specific workers (like stone masons) for the Temple building, they went to countries with great stone masons (Scandinavian countries) and brought them over with a bunch of promises.
My great grandparents were brought over from Norway and Denmark because of their stone mason abilities. Many of my grandpa's homes he built are still in SLC. My grandpa was a stone mason like his father who built the temple.
I'm sure they brought other specialists from various countries too. I just always heard about the stone masons in my family.