When we left we were very honest with our friends and called them each up and talked with each of them personally. We talked as little as possible about our reasons for leaving and as much as possible about our eagerness to preserve our friendship. They were all crying and bearing their testimonies and telling us how much they loved us ect...then? Silence...I wasn't invited to anything anymore. I was sure that they would keep in contact with me at least to be a good reminder of the church, even if they didn't want to be friends any more. I had remained very close with my friends who had left the church (though obviously I was different, that's why I'm out). I hear about love bombs and all this stuff, not my awesome friends, they just hit the road. Sure, they scope out my life on my blog and send me Christmas cards, but I'm not invited to anything anymore and it's been about 2 years. It's like it's only safe to interact with me via the internet and then only in a very sparce and superficial way. We heard from some friends (who are now leaving) that instantly people started talking about how we were "anti"ed. Like we got shot with an antimoron lazer beam that fried our brains.

All that to ask, is there a different way the members are supposed to treat apostates rather than inactives...because seriously, we have the plague.

I would think that typically TBM's would think of inactives as slackers who still believe. And they can be rehabilitated.

Apostates have been led away by Satan and deceived. They need to be kept at arms length. They are dangerous.

Some how, I missed out on this nuance until I left the church myself. I thought at least a few would stick around. I really feel betrayed.

Our exact experience as well. We were dumb-struck. After 15-20 years of friendship too, sticking with people during THEIR crisis of faith, doing vacation travel with them, virtually raising their children. Completely speechless with amazement. Such a fucked up cult.

Right? It's jaw dropping. Thanks for sharing this. It's always comforting when someone else understands what you're going through. We've been on vacations together, through births, middle of the night emergencies, dinners, weekend trips, babysitting, teaching each other's children in primary/young womens... The part that bums me is that just when I think I'm over it I get some tid bit of information that makes me remember this group of ladies all over again and I get so hurt and angry. I don't want to be their friend anymore but everything inside me wants to just tell them off. It sounds immature, I know, but that's how I feel. The thought of these self righteous bitches looking down on me from their high horses really boils my blood. But there's no point, they would just think I am angry and sad because I'm not in the church anymore, and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't actually make me feel any better.

rmw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some how, I missed out on this nuance until I left
> the church myself. I thought at least a few would
> stick around. I really feel betrayed.

After 2 years, what part of CULT do you not understand? They are treating you exactly as the "brethren" have instructed them to. They are on a quest to become a god, and have no use for anyone who can't help them get there, let alone a "hinderance" like you.

Good point. You're right I know. I just missed out on the memo that said that the only reason we're friends is because we go to the same church. I should have seen it coming, but I saw them as reasonable people and friends instead of morgbots. It's just the natural result of "leaving the tribe" but it makes me ANGRY.

Your story sounds all too familiar. DNA has the nuance exactly right. My wife is still a member but she has been inactive since the day I resigned. She has her own reasons for being inactive yet she does not feel the need to formally resign. This creates an interesting situation in our home. She gets visits from her visiting teachers, occasional phone calls and even a drop-by of the missionaries once in a blue moon. But me? Nada! And when we do have visitors I always smile, say "hello" and continue to be my usual, friendly self but it's obvious that they've come to see my wife but not me. Boo! Hoo!

I am neither.

I refuse to buy into their lingo and play their game.

Remember Lehi's dream - the great and spacious building, and those people in it pointing the finger of scorn at those trying to follow the iron rod to the tree of life? Nobody told the TBMs that it actually worked in reverse: The iron rodders actually ignore US in the building who are only trying to be friends and are saying, "hey...the tree sucks. Save yourselves from partaking of that damned fruit!!!"

or maybe they're the one's in the great building mocking us... while we cling to reason.

They want to stay in touch so that the target non-participator can have a ready avenue of return. But they don't want to be contaminated or give too much of an unearned payoff to anyone who is undeserving.

what I call "The Tribe"?

The members are uncomfortable with anyone who steps outside the acceptable religious/tribal limits. You are now an outsider, no longer a member of the "IN" group.

The mind set aka their World View is: you are either for/with us, or against us. When we leave, we are no longer accepted as "with" them.Sometimes even considered the enemy, an agent of that wily character -- Satan!

It's my view that it's out job as former members to teach the members how to treat us. They need to be educated and taught how to live their own 11th Article of Faith. They have no training, no lessons.

The Articles of Faith - #11:
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

I'm very fortunate, many of the LDS folks (friends and relatives) I know are part of my life on some level.
I go to lunch and email and have FB friends that are LDS.
That's just fine with me. They are good people that I have known for years. Rarely does religion come up. It's not an issue.

"The Articles of Faith - #11:
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."

(TBM afterthought: But we sure don't want to stick around and be poluted by thier infidel poison, let them do it far away from us.)

Very hard to find any Mormon today that actually lives by the 11th, isn't it? My mom keeps pleading to me to come back to the church.

I assume that they decline all the invitations you have extended, and hang up on you when you call?

if you're joking. That's not being shunned looks like in the female mormon world.

It's like this. I make a phone call, leave a really sweet message about getting together sometime. No return. A month later I get an email saying. "How are you and your cute family!!!! I was just thinking of you. How are you guys?" Nothing said about call or invitation. I reply a sincere email telling about our family and real details about what's been going on (sans church stuff) and ask how they are doing, complete with specific questions. No reply for 2 months. Then I get a Christmas card with a hand written note at the bottom that says, "miss you guys!" All the while on their blogs I see that they are all getting together to do ladies nights outs and girls trips to NY and skiing (all of which I was always invited to every time).

It may be passive shunning, but trust me...I've been shunned.

rmw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> being shunned looks
> like in the female mormon world.
>
> It's like this...

My wife gets that same kind of thing from a lady in our ward. She sends emails acting like she wants to go for lunch, while completely ignoring any past replies.

Just out of the blue lets go to lunch emails, but never an answer to the previous questions in the prior emails.

around conference is a juiced up time for them, they show up at my door to proselytize, bear testimony, ask me if they offended me--somehow that one never gets old for them--and then leave with not a peep for another six months.

I left the church around the same time I was getting divorced. My so-called good friends in the branch knew what I was going through with my ex (mostly financial), and knew I was struggling with the church.

As I pulled away more and more, they didn't reach out, they didn't ask what was wrong, they didn't want any part of the me I had become. They wanted the old Debbie, but that was no longer me.

I sometimes miss them. I spent so many years in their company. We raised our kids together, went to each other's houses, we laughed and cried and loved each other. Or so I thought.

I guess in the end, they didn't love me, they loved my Mormonism. So sad.

This happened to me too. Being abandoned by people who you genuinely thought were your friends is so painful. I was shocked at how quickly and easily they ditched me when it came out that I no longer believed.

I no longer have TBM friends. I have found it impossible to have genuine relationships with them, even when I was TBM (everyone always seemed to be trying to one up eachother all the time), and most certainly as an apostate. My unfortunate experience.

I'm am grateful now for the friendships I have after Mormonism. I love that my friends love and appreciate me for being ME. I love the diversity in my friends - different religions, worldviews, backgrounds, education levels. Some career women, some SAHMs...I love my friends!

I will always be grateful for the REAL people in my life after wasting so much of my time on the Stepford wives who dropped me like a hot potato once I dared to step out of their box.

See, this is why I haven't officially resigned. I would absolutely lose contact with family, friends, people that are very important to me. I'll even go to church occasionally and make pious noises so they think that, while inactive, I'm still interested in the cult.

I sucks that my relationship with everyone is tied to this one stupid detail. The mormon church. GEEEEEZ!!!

I think apostates make them uncomfortable and afraid in some ways. I noticed how none of my former friends had even one question for me as to why. I found it extremely telling.

The usual reason I hear from TBMs who will even touch on the subject is that they, particularly the other TBMs, do not want to offend me and therefore do not know what to say. They know that I am disaffected, alienated, not going to church for some reason, but cannot figure out a way to ask why or to do more than awkwardly ask "how's it going?"--keeping it light and most importantly short.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2011 04:15AM by derrida.

I was also abandoned,only 1 relationship survived and I think it would have kept going no matter what,we are soul mates.
1 very close friend got married last year(this is uk so civil ceremony first)she had been dating a guy for 5 years before he popped the ?,we used to have meaningful discussions about the relationship,went to lunch and enjoyed each others company,when they did marry(1 year after I resigned)I was'nt invited,it hurt as she sent me a christmas card months after the wedding and did'nt even mention it.

I think they are afraid and brainwashed,they think its catching,though I do think some are doubters and are frightened to address their fears.

I agree with you that fear of finding things out is what drives a lot of the distancing.

I was BIC but went on an extended 'Gospel Holiday' (I actually went back into the fold eventually but I know, I know, WHY?) and the only people who's friendship continued were the people who also left the Church.

I also think there will be an element of two way street to this in that, when you leave you either do not wish to discuss the Church - which was a very large common denominator in your friendships. Or if you do want to talk about it, invariably you will want to talk about it from an adversarial and changed viewpoint - again this has changed the dynamic.

It's our fault that the relationship has changed, but it is their fault for allowing it to affect them.

loli - no I was in the Midlothian Virginia ward. The women were mostly from out west though.

I really appreciated what everyone said...and that other's have experienced this "crazy making" dynamic of being totally ignored and getting some short enthusiastic email or phone message. My psychologist hubby calls it deflection. It's very hard to respond negatively to someone who is pouring on the happiness and enthusiasm. GC rolls around and someone throws you a bone.

Yes it is awkward and it is us that have changed the dynamic of our friendship, but I thought we would keep spending time together and find our feet in our new friendship. That is what I did with my 2 friends from college who left, and honestly I fully expected the same thing to happen with my close friends in my ward. Looking back I was always different than them. I never noticed that I was the only one of the group that had friends out side of the church and apostate friends. I just didn't realize how limited they really are. I thought we connected on a human to human level, not just some church bubble fling.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to be rid of them now, but the abandonment hurts and I've found a few really GREAT new friends, but it's slow-going building my new social network (the other friends I spoke of live far away now). When I get lonely I sometimes think of the TBM's and how they have treated me, how they have just cast me aside and continue on as if I was never one of them. It makes me want to want to hold up a mirror and make them take a good long look at their "christ-like" actions. But that's just the anger talking.