Hi all. New to the forum. I was released early for time served about 17 years ago. Wow. I hadn't done the math on that for a while. I am still on the records, however. I decided that TSCC having my name on it's records was less harmful to me than removing it would be for my parents, whom I still love.

But to the point - I'm looking for some validation from others that the term "Anti" is probably the hottest hot button to be pushed when it comes to leaving TSCC. True, or my own perception?

I'm not even quite sure if I can express what that term does to me because I get so hot that I just want to freak out which isn't conducive to eloquent writing. LOL

Anyone else care to take a stab?

~Angela

That is right on the money.

The "Anti" hot button is merely a way of obfuscating the real issues. When someone has to play the "anti" anything button they are acknowledging that they do not have any valid defenses. It is an attempt to shut down legitimate debate by somehow tarring the valid questioner with some bizarre form of bigotry brush. When someone plays the "anti" card they have acknowledged to the world that they lost the debate and that the questions or comments where likely valid.

Thanks, Eddie.

I think the "anti" card often gets pulled even before any debate happens in the first place.

Several years ago I shared a house with one of my old church friends who wasn't active, but entertained the missionaries "for the sake of her children." Every Thursday they'd come by and, while I was usually home, I didn't participate in the discussions. Which were, literally, the discussions. I did, however, smile, say hello and even fed them more than once.

Somehow, along the way, it got back to my parents, several states away, that I had been deemed "anti". In this game of Mormon Operator, what I heard was "There's an 'anti' in the house." Seriously? I don't even know what else to say about that. Somehow that is supposed to make me feel Christ's love and return to the fold?

No I am not anti I just don't believe and I can give you reasons.

> then pray with an open heart and mind and you will know its true.

But I already know the facts there is no way its true.

> Then you are anti because you refuse to have an open mind.

Its problematic because they believe their "truth" trumps reality. The negative "anti" lable is a bullying tactic to put you on the defensive and make you argumentative which further validates their proof that they are right.

They will pull out.... "so you think I am duped then?" Another negative statement to put you on the defensive. The best response is, "that wasn't where I was going but essentially yes you are. You are no more open to rational facts than I am open to feelings of validation from you as a revelation of truth." At least that's how it goes when I talk to my dad.

Of intrest the word anti is correct. I think it was "Insiders View of Mormonism" where the author wrote about the origins of "anti" in religion as in antichrist. At first it was a christian term for everyone who did not believe in Jesus as their savior. I think because we grew up in a cult that worships end of days the term antichrist took on the devil who would usher in the evil of the last days. So those of us raised in the church are very sensitive to the term almost like they are calling us the devil. It really helped me to understand the meaning of the term because I can agree with it and reply with an unexpected yet valid point that Mormons are anticatholic, antijew, antimuslim, antibaptist, etc. For if they do not embrace those belief systems they are anti. It really deflated the power they have given the word.

About the only time you hear the word "anti" it's associated with "anti-Christ".
"anti-Mormon" is as simply a label to put you in the same category and discount everything you say and do because your such a threat and evil person, full of sin, drinker, immoral, dishonest, lost you light, you've got to repent former self.
We're happy, they're not. Sucks to be them.

I think that the term is often employed by mormons to shame their opposition, as in "How dare you cast aspersions on the One And Only One True Church of Jesus Christ, how dare you blaspheme my Universal Church, how dare you blah, blah, blah."

Sometimes it has a different nuance, as in "You are one of 6 anti-mormons in the universe, who's going to listen to you."

label you with it, they don't have to listen to anything you say. You are obviously already in the wrong.

The church actively encourages them to stop thinking when encountering anyone who differs from them. Are are persecuting them by your very existence, and the devil has taken hold of you. You are contagious and to be avoided, blah blah blah.

Heresy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
...and the devil has taken hold of you.

I attended mainstream Christian churches for many years. I honestly don't remember hearing about the devil much at all (although I'm sure he comes up often in the more fundie Christian groups.) It was maybe just a handful of times, and even then it was in reference to Jesus's temptation out in the desert. There was never a reference to "Satan is after your soul" type of thing. My impression is that for the most part, the mainstream churches moved beyond that type of thinking and preaching a long time ago.

I've never heard the term "the adversary" in a mainstream church.

The Mormons seem to put a lot more emphasis on the adversary. Having such a strong adversary, well...leads to adversarial thinking and adversarial relationships.

So to their way of thinking, when you leave the church, you are now in league with the adversary.

Mainstream Christians are largely untroubled when someone leaves their church. Perhaps you like another church or denomination better, or you just want to do something else with your Sundays. It doesn't necessarily make you a bad person, or someone to be shunned or feared.

My interpretation of Jesus's words is that he did not want us to be fearful of others who are different from us.

It took tooooo long. But my hubby and I figured out the church wasn't true from the inside without all the extremely useful information on this board.

However, it doesn't matter, we were labeled as antied anyway. About a year after we left my husband went skiing with a man from one of our old wards (he and his wife are totally inactive and hate the church and have no plans to ever return but haven't told anyone yet). The wife was asked if she thought it was safe to let her husband spend a day skiing with my husband. This really happened, and my hubbie is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet.

Wow, the TRUTH is so fragile.

The word part "anti-" is symptomatic of black/white, tribal thinking. If you're not one of us, you're an enemy. You couldn't possibly be a member of another friendly tribe.

This is a huge cog-dis within the Mormon faith. Outsiders are both feared and courted (through missionary efforts) at the same time.

It reeks of insecurity.

Using "anti" is insider lingo for "not faith promoting" and a warning to stay away.

To us outsiders, it isn't that anything is "anti Mormon" but rather "pro truth" is what we are after.

I'm not anti mormon, I'm pro truth.

"Anti" is just another way of saying Apostate which guives them license to disregard everything you say and disregard you as a person. There is something wrong with you.

Here is a quote from a poster on one of my YouTube videos.

"Its sad that theres too many people that lacks the knowledge of the true church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints. The worst ones are the ones who left the true church bcause of their rebellious, refused to repent of their wickned abominable life styles and the other worst thing is, is the lack of knowledge, now, they kept trying to pervert Gods word, their hearts and minds even their spirits are burned with the fire of hatred, due to their sinful sodomy and other manners of wick."

"U need to stop making excuses, u know what u r up to, u r nothing, but, a wicked individual, thats coming up with excuses, deciving&betraying spirit, kept trying to pervert Gods word, get over it, why? bcause, i rather educate an animal then people like u, why? your attitudes telling me that u r worst then an animal.Theres no other gospel, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints is the only true Church period."

and I'd be happy to wear the anti label any time, any place rather than be associated with people who would write that stuff (in a public place no less).

Call me anti--call me apostate (I actually like the label)--before labeling me MORMON.

Excellent replies all. I knew it wasn't just my perception but sometimes I still fall into that self doubting place that says I'm seeing things the wrong way.

Not so much in the "anti" subject but along the lines of shaming or discrediting...within the past year both of my TBM sisters have suggested to me that because I chose to leave TSCC at the end of my teens/early twenties I based my perceptions of TSCC through the lesser informed eyes of a teen. That I don't *really* know what TSCC is all about because I never really experienced it as an adult. How insulting.

I pointed out that I am 36 now and am quite capable of adult thinking and would like to know what I get credit for that?

What I failed to recognize until just now is - they've based their entire lives on a "choice" they made as an 8 year old! Seems like living my adult life based on a choice at 19/20 makes more sense. But maybe that's just me. ;-)

Actually, as for your sisters' comments about you never experienced it as an adult--I call bullshit on that one.

After reading on here all these years, but especially the other day, something HIT ME--and I can't remember what--it was when I was old enough to finally be able to say, "NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" When I was young, I was taken to church by my parents (too bad I'm the one who BOUGHT IT more than the rest of my siblings OR PARENTS for that matter)--but I thought I didn't have the right to say NO. The more control they tried to take of my life (and it acutally gets worse the older you get)--and once I left home and was able to live on my own, I finally realized I could tell the leaders NO!!!!!!!!!!! I could tell my husband NOOOOOOOOOOOO! I didn't have to go to church every week and I didn't have to pray in meetings and I didn't have to go to the temple.

Being adult in mormonism was what gave me license to leave. Your sisters are just trying to guilt you into feeling deficient.

Actually, my dear little TBM daughter--I can't remember what we were talking about and I said something about being a sinner and she started in on "Mom, you aren't . . . " and I said, "OH PLEASE, PLEASE let me be a sinner. I was such a good girl for so long."

I love being an apostate. I love being an adulteress (separated 15 years now in a committed relationship)--I really was such a good girl for so long, I LOVE BEING who I am--FINALLY.

I spent a few days last fall summarizing a little more than ten years of my experiences with RFM...

I knew I'd arrived when the pro-Mormon factions started screeching about what a lyin' scumbag I was...

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,5317,5317,quote=1

>Moving on, one challenge I've encountered in my research is what I've come to term "Mormon smear." Quite frankly, LDS historians, many of whom I've concluded are only writing badly biased historical fiction, only have to characterize an author as a "rabid anti-Mormon," and they consider their task of dismissing them as accomplished.

I'm not sure this stuff will help you with your anger, but the only way to get past that stuff is through it, and I wish you well...

A female missionary called me from Salt Lake City. She was asked to harass me by one of my mormon friends.

As soon as I began to respond to some of her statements with facts or questions supporting the opposite viewpoint, she pushed the "anti" button hard. She branded me with "anti" and tried to write off all my objections on that basis.

I pointed out to her that the information I was giving her about Dallin Oaks' and Tommy Monson's involvement in torturing gays came from BYU archives.

Information about Joe Smith's wives comes from lds.org.

I do dislike that "anti" button. It's just one more excuse for mormons to escape from rational thought.

Don't forget. This site was created by the devil. And everyone on this site(been long enough on here I'm probably included) is possessed by the devil.


My father's own words.

As in so-called intellectuals or so-called feminists.

Both terms are intended to discredit the target and easily warn the faithful away.

They are loaded terms used to great effect.

It's very enlightening to TBMs to use this tactic on them:

anti-christian

anti-due diligence

anti-compassion

anti-homosexual

anti-tolerance

anti-reason

. . . the list goes on but it is challenging when A TBM will say something is anti-mormon, and then when they are then categorized as anti-reason the fallacy of wholesale sweeping categorization is obvious.