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Posted by: Tal Bachman ( )
Date: March 09, 2014 11:35PM

Hi Kids

Dr. Love has a suggestion for you.

I decided recently to read excerpts from Boyd Packer's famous "Little Factories" talk to my boo. I thought she would think it was funny.

Instead, my nevermo woman's reaction seemed to indicate a concern - nay, something like fear - that her fella had ever been part of a religious organization that ludicrous (as in, "what kind of lunatic would ever have belonged to a religion like that?"). I found myself suddenly in the position of having to try to defend my former membership, or changing the subject. I decided that any defense of my former membership would make everything even worse, so I mumbled something and then tried to change the subject.

Dr. Love's suggestion, born of this experience and a few others, is:

Our experience as members of Joseph Smith's freakazoidal religion is usually best described in very broad terms. More specific terms can freak people out, and unduly taint us, even though we are no longer the zombies we once were.

Just a suggestion.


Dr. Love

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2014 11:57PM by Tal Bachman.

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Posted by: toto ( )
Date: March 10, 2014 12:16AM

Oh yes, I can relate.

Early years of leaving the church I learned not to share. People who found out I converted asked, "Why in the hell did you ever join?!"

Now I only get questions from my nevermo kids. I must have done a pretty good job of acting sane around them because they can't believe, when I tell them some doctrinal stuff, that I ever bought any of it.

I'd stick to other, more palatable texts when discussing lurv with your boo :o)

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Posted by: Fetal Deity ( )
Date: March 10, 2014 12:43AM

Mormonism is an inside joke. We exmos are "lucky" to be in on it. Most TBMs are offended by any implication of humor in the really weird stuff. And most nevermos are more disturbed by it than amused.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2014 12:44AM by Fetal Deity.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: March 10, 2014 12:45AM

I have a different take on this.

Every single one of us is learning. We're born in a certain "place"...we grow as well as we know how to grow...and we keep ON growing, in positive ways, throughout our lifetimes if we're doing it right.

This inevitably means that, at a later time, we will look back on ourselves at an earlier time and see that we have matured greatly since "that" time. We may well have become "different people" since "that" time. We may feel guilt, or shame, or disgust at ourselves for something we did (or did not) do at "that" time because now, with our greater, more evolved maturity, we can see how comparatively "immature" we were "back then."

The only people who aren't able to do this are those who have NOT grown...they're still, pretty much, the "same" people they were "back then." This is NOT something to be proud of. It demonstrates stunted growth, compared to what we had to potentials to achieve.

When we fall in love with someone, and especially if that someone is a full adult, we are in love with a COMPLETE person. This INCLUDES whatever-it-was that happened in the past. If the other person has not grown beyond that level, then it is time to reevaluate our thoughts and feelings about that person. But, if the other person HAS grown beyond that level, and--knowing what they know now--WOULD NOT be that "same person" if they were able to time travel back to that earlier time, then you accept this person as they are now, and you acknowledge their positive growth.

Once upon a time, we ALL did things we are now ashamed of (or feel guilty for...or wonder how we EVER could have done, or not done, this thing or that thing).

We should be able to trust that our partners can accept us as we are NOW, and also accept the pasts that we, ourselves, wish had been different.

If we love someone, we accept ALL of them...and we LOVE the fact that they have used their lives to grow beyond the limits that they were born into, or once either innocently or ignorantly thought were right for them back then.

Real love depends on authenticity, and disclosure, and communication.

If you don't have all three, and if your partner can't accept you not only as you are now, but as you were THEN, then it's probably not genuine, lasting, deeply satisfying LOVE that you (or they) are experiencing.

It's probably a case of fleeting infatuation.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2014 12:48AM by tevai.

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Posted by: greenjellow/ocarrots ( )
Date: March 10, 2014 08:59AM

Thank you for the best insight I have heard in a long time. Just wanted to thank you for taking the time to post it.

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Posted by: Greyfort ( )
Date: March 10, 2014 08:37AM

Yeah, I've noticed that every time I want to share a funny fact about Mormonism to a never-Mo, they look at you like, "What?"

I think I may have driven away a few ladies on my little private forum of friends by talking about it too much.

Maybe that's why I stay on this forum. Here, you can talk about it as much as you want to. The people will get what you're talking about and will understand why it's funny.

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Posted by: Been there, too ( )
Date: March 10, 2014 08:50AM

Tevai, I understand the point you are making. Very valid and well-written. I'm curious, do you have a never-Mo partner? If not, it may be hard to appreciate Tal's very lighthearted anecdote/advice.

My never-Mo spouse is very loving and supportive. There's plenty of authenticity, and disclosure, and communication in our relationship. But my spouse reaches a limit on the amount of crazy Mormon stuff (e.g., garments, naked touching, worthiness interviews for teens, masturbation lessons, etc.) he/she can absorb in any one sitting.

You see, outsiders quickly see Mormonism for what it is: a creepy, crazy cult that sexually abuses minors and sexually confuses adults. When I start sharing Mormon tidbits with my spouse, he/she listens and engages. My spouses is oddly fascinated by it all. But my spouse sees that topic becomes a rabbit hole and the discussion can quickly turn into a rant on my part.

So, my spouse says, "OK, just one more Mormon comment, and then I've reached my creepy quota for the day." I think that brings Mormonism back in perspective. That it's just creepy and icky and not always pleasant to talk about.

Sometimes it's not healthy to dwell on Mormonism and how effed up it is. Being judicious about what and when you share Mormon stuff with a never-Mo can be best for both partners.

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Posted by: past-that ( )
Date: March 10, 2014 09:40AM

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Posted by: csuprovograd ( )
Date: March 10, 2014 09:57AM

I am married to a never mo.

As I describe the nuances of TSCC and it's oddities she become more incredulous and looks at my still active relatives in a way that is reserved for crazy or dangerous people.

She does not ever wish to go to Utah and is reluctant to fraternize with known members of Churchco. She looks at me like I could fall back and become 'one of 'em'. In retrospect I probably shouldn't have been so forthright about from whence I came.

It is embarassing...

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