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Posted by: cricket ( )
Date: March 15, 2014 11:37AM

What follows are my assumptions only and are not based on any insider information, documents or policy.

I believe it is a general assumption here at RfM that the Morg keeps the door shut tight on finances because it wants to protect how much money it really has, how much salaries for big wigs are, perks and benefits and its for profit business practices are less about religion and more about capitalism.

Another recently developing reason for non-disclosure may be embarrassment about how tithing revenue is tanking. Imagine how the sheep would react if at every April General Conference a chart graph was shown with the decline in tithing looking like the stock market crashes of 1929 and 2008. LOL!

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Posted by: zenmaster ( )
Date: March 15, 2014 11:43AM

Even though these are assumptions, I do think you are I. To something

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Posted by: deco ( )
Date: March 15, 2014 12:00PM

The reason the numbers are so guarded is not because of too much money, rather too little money.

Too many hands in the till.

If we take the sums stated during the death of Brigham Young, and figure interest there should be way, way more money.

Considering that tithing should have paid the day to day bills of LDS Inc, and real estate investment return on investment the value of LDS Inc should now be well over 300 billion.

We have had guesstimates of 30 to 50 billion, with some estimates of over 100 billion.

I would submit that a few golden families have been cashing in on this scam for decades now, pulling billions out of the company and no one knowing.

Everything LDS inc does is about diverting attention from the elephants in the room.

I think they are bankrupt.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2014 12:01PM by deco.

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Posted by: Thomas ( )
Date: March 15, 2014 12:14PM

Empirical evidence supports cost cutting across the board, paid cleaners went facilities managers now work out of church building. Closing of distribution centres etc etc. Its all a massive cost cutting drive.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: March 15, 2014 12:57PM

It's odd. Normally you don't expect severe cost cutting when things are going well. Yet the church is spending massive amounts of money on commercial real estate.

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Posted by: QWE ( )
Date: March 15, 2014 12:13PM

I think it's just because they don't want the members and public to see how much the Mission Presidents and GAs get paid, and all the luxuries they get, and other things like that.

I can't see the amount of tithing plummeting THAT much that it would be embarrassing.

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Posted by: Shummy ( )
Date: March 15, 2014 12:33PM

Well,here I go.....hopefully not to far out into the weeds of politics and woo....

based on what I know and what likely is, the gold in fort knox is largely missing, the Fed has no substantial reserves of physical gold and we know Uncle Sam is run by our check kiting congress on ink and hot air.

The little-understood derivative bubble is anyone's multi-trillion dollar guess.

All that said, it appears that the public exchequer has been looted six ways from Sunday.

Methinks it therefore likely that the Morg may have been likewise sacked and sucked dry by unseen hands.

Murphy's revenge....if it can happen it probably already has.

:o(

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Posted by: anagrammy ( )
Date: March 15, 2014 12:34PM

I believe they cannot possibly justify the soaring amounts of money paid for

*bribes in foreign countries and
*settlements for sexual molestation charges,
*money paid to suppress movies, books, plays, articles
*money for lawyers
*embezzlement losses from huge GA theft (scriptwriters! Over here)
*money for pr consultants
*money for detectives
*money for surveillance equipment
*money for assassins
*bribes for domestic politicians

and I've saved the best for last:

INCREDIBLY COMPLEX MONEY LAUNDERING INVOLVING THE MAFIA AND FOREIGN CRIMINAL ELEMENTS!!!!

All of the above aggregated into substantial millions called "Other"? Hardly.

The church uses all the strategies Mitt Romney uses, including the Swiss and Caymen Island options.

Transparency ended when they stopped being a dishonest church and started being a dishonest corporation.

They are breaking the law and would be stupid to hand the government the evidence they need to prosecute.


Anagrammy

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: March 15, 2014 05:59PM

I agree with Ana. The number one reason for concealing money must be malfeasance. My father does it, and God knows he's a malefactor.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2014 05:59PM by donbagley.

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Posted by: snuckafoodberry ( )
Date: March 17, 2014 08:33PM

Another reason may be how much they give to humanitarian efforts compared with what they spend and invest to meet their own corporate agenda. I am sure they don't give much in charity, yet they take in a lot of tax free income.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: March 17, 2014 09:24PM

I think their investments probably dwarf tithing donations.

They don't want to talk finances because:

They spend a lot of money on real estate and other investments which the average person does not think religion should be buying.

They are not into charity much.

They have all these investments and have the audacity to ask the lemmings to be janitors.


The tax breaks are giving corporations dressed up as religions an unfair advantage, IMO. I say tax the H3ll out of them. They don't even have an honest product to sell.

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Posted by: snuckafoodberry ( )
Date: March 18, 2014 12:24AM

They would have a difficult time justifying the tax free donations they receive if they, in turn, do not make an honest effort to use much of it in a charitable manner. People would realize they are giving 10 percent they thought they were using to help people, only to realize they are purchasing real estate and making other people rich at the expense of their own family's well being. Most charities and churches disclose.

They should be embarrassed.

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Posted by: topped ( )
Date: March 17, 2014 07:49PM


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Posted by: Ex-cultmember ( )
Date: March 17, 2014 08:55PM

I think there's a LOT reasons they want to keep the financials secret. The members would be shocked to see how corrupt the stewards of "The Lords" money is and at best how incompetent they are. Members will see how LITTLE of their money actually goes to things they THINK they go to. They will be shocked to see how much the church spends on for-profit projects and investments. They will be shocked to see how much they spend of things like advertising, lawsuits, and gawdy monuments and church buildings. They'd be shocked to see how little of the money actually goes back to the members and the wards. They'd be shocked to find out that the leaders would make BAD investments losing millions of members' hard earned money. They'd be shocked to find out how much is spent by the leaders themselves on personal perks in addition to their hefty "living stipend." A big one I think should be mentioned is how they will see the church's financial dealings by giving huge payouts to connected family members, friends and businessman for fat contracts. They think the government is corrupt and bloated, I can't imagine what they would think of their own church if they could see those financial statements. There's a DAMN good reason them secret.

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Posted by: outsider ( )
Date: March 17, 2014 09:10PM

Yes, I just pointed this out on another thead. The amount of tithing is probably going down in real dollars, as the only growth outside of the Moridor is in poor countries, especially Africa with a net loss.

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Posted by: erictheex ( )
Date: March 18, 2014 04:01AM

member could swallow the salaries. The could gulp down the investments. They could digest the % given to charity, with some heartburn. But in my opinion, it is the "formula" that is the bog secret:

Give me 10%+ of your income and I will give your ward back $7. From that $7, you buy supplies from LDS corp. So at the end they swallow 98-99% of the money.

If members knew this, they would begin to wonder how much more they could do for the needy that their $7 is not getting them.

THEN the salaries, mall, investments, etc become clear: they are a corporation whose sole (pun intended) purpose is net gains.

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Posted by: anagrammy ( )
Date: March 18, 2014 04:26AM

How about just this one thing:

Ward A generates $5,000 and sends it to Salt Lake, per requirements. They then ask for $5,000 extra money for the reason they earned the money - say, to create a ward playground.

And they are refused, PLUS they are found to be behind the eightball in Fast Donations and are sent an assessment for the balance... in spite of having sent in the $5,000.

Members would fill their pants if they knew what happens to the money they donate, or even the donations in kind.


Anagrammy

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