On the other hand, how BYU enforces it is not such a great thing. The honor code office and student tattle tales are overzealous. It seems they follow the letter of the law instead of the spirit of the law. Also, exceptions to discipline are given, secretly, after the fact, depending upon who you are. Tattle tales should be discouraged. A duty to report ethical violations should be encouraged. They need to treat people like adults and let students police themselves for the most part. Didn't Joe Smith say, "Teach correct principles and let them govern themselves." Let leadership be examples and devotionals be arenas for promoting enthusiasm to keep following the honor code.

I don’t like all the elements of the BYU Honor Code so I’ll never be a student there. IMHO, if a student chooses to go to BYU and stipulates to the honor code then the student should have the integrity to fulfill their part of the agreement. Go Utes!

Why is an honor code a good thing? I've attended at least three universities w/o them (Colo. State U., the U. of Colorado, and the U. of S. Florida) and most everyone was fine and acted like adults.

Seems like just another way to try and control people, why is it good? Why should some big kahuna be able to expel you based on anything but criminal acts or lack of academic success?

Why should a business be able to fire a person for not wearing appropriate attire or having grooming standards suitable for the business or profession? It’s a fact of life that if a person doesn’t conform they’re out! If someone doesn’t like this type of control then they don’t have to take part in that organization.

IMHO a university is a place, which prepares students for the working world. There are rules & policies in the working world where people are free to either conform, influence changes, or go somewhere else.

A reasonable honor code is like a mission statement, which outlines expectations of acceptable standards of conduct and shared values in an organization. It shows the world a portrait of what that organization is about, and the services and products they provide. I believe all people in an organization should have a voice in the creation or modification of it, but some companies think otherwise. Honor codes can include the rights and responsibilities of the employee, employer and customer. Most business and many universities have standards of conduct or honor codes.

The problem with BYU’s honor code is that it’s one sided. The students don’t get to participate in the process of its creation or modification, but students are still free to go somewhere else if they don’t like it.

“Many different disciplines, institutions, and professions have norms for behavior that suit their particular aims and goals. These norms also help members of the discipline to coordinate their actions or activities and to establish the public's trust of the discipline. For instance, ethical norms govern conduct in medicine, law, engineering, and business. Ethical norms also serve the aims or goals of research and apply to people who conduct scientific research or other scholarly or creative activities. There is even a specialized discipline, research ethics, which studies these norms.” David B. Resnik, J.D., Ph.D.

Best wishes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2011 08:24PM by openeyes.

lostinutah,
On the contrary, each of the schools you listed have an honor code of some sort:

http://system.usf.edu/board-of-trustees/academic-and-campus-environment/pdfs/meeting-archives/Agendas/2007/February_1_2007/Commitment_to_Honor_final_complete.pdf

http://www.colorado.edu/law/about/honorcode/

http://tilt.colostate.edu/integrity/faqs/what_are_the_rules.cfm

Well, after getting a degree from each of the first two, that's the first time I've ever heard of an honor code. Not enforced like the one at BYU, thank Gaia.

It's possible the schools didn't have an honor code when you attended.

It's all the unwritten rules that are imposed on BYU students that stink.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2011 11:17PM by openeyes.

The BYU Honor Code is nothing more than a tool which will allow timely spotting of potential troublemakers.

http://saas.byu.edu/catalog/2009-2010ucat/GeneralInfo/HonorCode.php

It covers a lot.

Many sections, I wonder if students read it fully and understand it.

This is the one on Conduct which is the most obvious to many.

Conduct
All students and residents are required to conduct themselves in a manner consistent with the Honor Code. Students must abstain from the use of alcohol, tobacco, and illegal substances and from the intentional misuse or abuse of any substance. Sexual misconduct; obscene or indecent conduct or expressions; disorderly or disruptive conduct; participation in gambling activities; involvement with pornographic, erotic, indecent, or offensive material; and any other conduct or action inconsistent with the principles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Honor Code is not permitted.

Violations of the Honor Code may result in actions up to and including separation from the university

Dress and Grooming Standards
The dress and grooming of both men and women should always be modest, neat, and clean, consistent with the dignity adherent to representing The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and any of its institutions of higher education.

Modesty and cleanliness are important values that reflect personal dignity and integrity, through which students, staff, and faculty represent the principles and standards of the Church. Members of the BYU community commit themselves to observe the following standards, which reflect the direction of the Board of Trustees and the Church publication For the Strength of Youth. The Dress and Grooming Standards are as follows:

Men
A clean and well-cared-for appearance should be maintained. Clothing is inappropriate when it is sleeveless, revealing, or form fitting. Shorts must be knee-length or longer. Hairstyles should be clean and neat, avoiding extreme styles or colors, and trimmed above the collar, leaving the ear uncovered. Sideburns should not extend below the earlobe or onto the cheek. If worn, moustaches should be neatly trimmed and may not extend beyond or below the corners of the mouth. Men are expected to be clean-shaven; beards are not acceptable. Earrings and other body piercing are not acceptable. Shoes should be worn in all public campus areas.

Women
A clean and well-cared-for appearance should be maintained. Clothing is inappropriate when it is sleeveless, strapless, backless, or revealing; has slits above the knee; or is form fitting. Dresses, skirts, and shorts must be knee-length or longer. Hairstyles should be clean and neat, avoiding extremes in styles or colors. Excessive ear piercing (more than one per ear) and all other body piercing are not acceptable. Shoes should be worn in all public campus areas.


http://saas.byu.edu/catalog/2009-2010ucat/GeneralInfo/HonorCode.php

Hey, it doesn't say women have to wear bras anywhere that I saw. :)

SusieQ#1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> indecent, or offensive

When I was in my Masters program I was on the Student Council. Another person on the Council didn't get their way during a Council meeting and carried on about it slyly in a class. I flipped them off and told them to stuff it right there in class.

If I was at BYU, I could have been kicked out for it I suppose.

DNA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SusieQ#1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > indecent, or offensive
>
> When I was in my Masters program I was on the
> Student Council. Another person on the Council
> didn't get their way during a Council meeting and
> carried on about it slyly in a class. I flipped
> them off and told them to stuff it right there in
> class.
>
> If I was at BYU, I could have been kicked out for
> it I suppose.


You might be reported and get an Honor Code Violation. But not all violations result in expulsion. Just a guess, but probably only a few.

and a huge list of Academic Misconduct are also against the Honor Code.
I wouldn't speculate on what part of the Honor Code Davies broke.
It could be one of about 25 things, easy.

http://saas.byu.edu/catalog/2009-2010ucat/GeneralInfo/HonorCode.php

Looks like you could break something by just breathing wrong.

Since the list includes "be honest" and "respect others" I doubt that there is a person there (or anywhere in the world) that is 100% honest or "respects others" 100% of the time. While those are noble things to put in an "honor code" and strive for, in reality NO ONE can live up to that honor code.

Every person, teacher, and administrator at YBU should be brought up on an "honor violation," and the university should be shut down.

YBU brings this on their self by the ridiculousness of the things included in the honor code. It is compounded by the fact that members are forced to lie in interviews (do you masturbate, etc.) to get their TR, so that lying to the "church" [CULT] becomes second nature.

I don't care about YBU sports (or men's BB at all) but the situation just puts YBU in the national spotlight of what a CULT they are. I hope this situation causes them to crash and burn in the national perception about Mormons.

He had sex with his girlfriend. It was in the NY Times.

...are only concerned with academic violations and criminal conduct. That's fine. But BYU's honor code is mostly just petty regulations.

I think, though, that BYU, and by extension the LDS Church, use the so-called honor code as an excuse to project how honorable and righteous they are...as, I think, in this case. It's a question of "Look at us, aren't we righteous, even willing to sabotage our sporting hopes while we stand on principle." In the process, though, they trample on the issue of forgiveness and a willingness to work through a problem with someone through counseling and such...things that should be at the heart of Christian interpretation. Who suffers in the cause of correctness? Besides the player concerned, the rest of the team, and thousands of fans who who support them. Kind of like punishing the whole class until the real offender owns up.