The final nail in the coffin for the tiresome argument "If you want to learn about Mormonism, ask a Mormon"

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-religion-survey,0,7375137.story

"If you want to know about God, you might want to talk to an atheist.

Heresy? Perhaps. But a survey that measured Americans' knowledge of religion found that atheists and agnostics knew more, on average, than followers of most major faiths. In fact, the gaps in knowledge among some of the faithful may give new meaning to the term "blind faith."

A majority of Protestants, for instance, couldn't identify Martin Luther as the driving force behind the Protestant Reformation, according to the survey, released Tuesday by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life. Four in 10 Catholics misunderstood the meaning of their church's central ritual, incorrectly saying that the bread and wine used in Holy Communion are intended to merely symbolize the body and blood of Christ, not actually become them.

Atheists and agnostics -- those who believe there is no God or who aren't sure -- were more likely to answer the survey's questions correctly. Jews and Mormons ranked just below them in the survey's measurement of religious knowledge -- so close as to be statistically tied.

So why would an atheist know more about religion than a Christian?

American atheists and agnostics tend to be people who grew up in a religious tradition and consciously gave it up, often after a great deal of reflection and study, said Alan Cooperman, associate director for research at the Pew Forum.

"These are people who thought a lot about religion," he said. "They're not indifferent. They care about it."

Atheists and agnostics also tend to be relatively well educated, and the survey found, not surprisingly, that the most knowledgeable people were also the best educated. However, it said that atheists and agnostics also outperformed believers who had a similar level of education."

"Jews and Mormons ranked just below them in the survey's measurement of religious knowledge -- so close as to be statistically tied."

I wonder if the questions were about Mormonism how well Mormons would do compared to atheists and agnostics.

I don't recall ever being taught anything about other religions or Christian denominations during church meetings. Am I missing soemthing? Do they teach missionaries about other religions in order to counter arguments or objections they might encounter? Or were the questions general enough to have been covered in Mormon seminary classes?

I'm not too surprised that atheists and agnostics know more about religion. I strongly agree with these statements: "American atheists and agnostics tend to be people who grew up in a religious tradition and consciously gave it up, often after a great deal of reflection and study, said Alan Cooperman, associate director for research at the Pew Forum.

""These are people who thought a lot about religion," he said. "They're not indifferent. They care about it.""

Mormons should be pleased by this comment: "He said he found it significant that Mormons, who are not considered Christians by many fundamentalists, showed greater knowledge of the Bible than evangelical Christians."

But I'd also would believe that Mormons would not be so knowledgable about their own religion unless the content were based on the faith promoting mythology taught to members. The real history would be too disturbing and "anti-Mormon" for members.

It says only seven out of ten Christians knew Moses had led the exodus and that Jesus was born in Bethlehem. I could have answered that when I was five years old. Also that Mother Theresa was a Catholic. I had the transsubstantiation question down by the time I was a young teenager. Who did they survey? Those are some EASY questions. But the Moby Dick question is odd. How is the response to that scary? Most Americans don't read at all. How would they know of Herman Melville? It's much scarier that they don't understand central questions about their own faith which they use to understand and navigate the world.

I will agree with the above question about how Mormons would fare if asked about their own religion. I know WAY more about the doctrine and history of the church now that I'm out.

That was an incredibly easy quiz. They must have surveyed idiots. LOL

I totally agree with you! Even the full 32-question quiz is absurdly easy. I would have hoped that most people would have missed no more than 5. IMHO, only three questions required any knowledge and only one was genuinely hard.

I once had a co-worker who was very religious, he attended a small non dem church, he was a great guy and I still keep in touch with him. On day we were talking and I mentioned that I had taken several college classes about religion and the history of religion I found very interesting. He said, "oh, that explains why your an atheist"

I think that most people who end up hitting the exit button on religion are those to whom it really mattered - to whom things like god were so important that they wanted to know as much as they could - to get it right and get as close to their faith as possible. And never expected to see the man behind the curtain was not even there.

I studied my way out by wanted to get deeply in. Just love the irony.

I wonder if this will make Mormons realize that maybe we atheists did really study our way out.

Mostly from what I've seen around the net this morning, they are just crowing about how smart they are.

This doesn't surprise me a bit.

When I was at a Christian-run univeristy doing my upper-division work for my BA, one afternoon in a class on Christianity in the Non-Christian World, the professor asked the class to come up with the text of John 3:16 which is, of course, a fairly foundational scripture for Christians. Out of a class of about twenty students, most of whom claimed to be faithful, practicing Christians, I (the agnostic in the bunch) was the only one who could quote the verse cold. That was only the first of a number of experiences I had there which showed that it isn't always the devout believer who knows the most about their religion, or any other.

Although, to be perfectly fair, my major there was cultural anthropology, with a concentration in the anthropology of religion, and I found the professors there, who were required to be professing Christians, knew their own religion very well and had a wide and mostly judgement-free knowledge of other religions. Of course, for a small, private university, there was probably more than the normal share of PhD's who had studied at the top universities around the country and around the world.

When I met my TBM ex I was Methodist so he proceeded to find out all he could about methodism, its founding, it principles, what set it apart from other religions. And then he visited church with me a few times and made some comments like "They're pretty casual about studying. I would have thought they would do more." etc. Then he explained a lot to me about methodist history. He had gathered a lot of knowledge, but missed the fact that methodists, especially larger wealthier congregations, ARE very casual and don't wear their beliefs in public for anyone to see. There are devout believers, but they're not the type to say "We will be praying for you." They're more likely to bring a casserole or muffins without anyone asking and won't tell anyone about it. But still, TBM ex did learn more about methodism than I ever knew and I was methodist for more than 10 years.

I just want to test my own knowledge. :)

(Jewish here)

I took the exam and got 14 of the 15 questions correct. I didn't know who Jonathan Edwards was. Evidently I did better than quite a bit of the religious people out there (and wonder how I did in comparison to atheists and agnostics - there were a lot of bumps in the road in loading the questions).

michael Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (Jewish here)
>
> and wonder how I did
> in comparison to atheists and agnostics

At the very end there was a link that did all sorts of comparisons. It was linked together in the style of a "Next" button.

Your definitely out scored the average Atheist.

14 of 15 right, didn't know Jonathan Edwards. I'm agnostic, grew up Mormon. Honestly a lot of this stuff turns up in regular history classes. I took an Asian Art History class in college, and mostly what I learned about was Buddhism and Hinduism.

I did get the other 14 questions correct, though. Afterwards, I googled him and read some articles about him. In my opinion, we have him to thank for Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, et.al.

Charles (Grandison) Finney who was also mentioned in that particular question.

Finney is considered the inspiration behind the likes of Billy Sunday and Billy Graham as well as most of today's Televangelists.

Started his practice in Joseph Smith's neck 'o' the woods around the same time. Also check out William Miller. Started his movement near Joe's old stompin' grounds about the same time as well.

Then you gots your Fox Sisters (they're a fun read), Ellen G. White and a whole lot more!

Lots of interesting stuff goin' on in that there "Burned Over District" back in the day!

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2010 10:28AM by Timothy.

I got 14 out of 15 correct. One by process of elimination as I was not sure. Some were very easy, some not so easy for me, anyhow.
It's good info to know. I won't make the mistake on the one I missed, again! :-)

"I think that most people who end up hitting the exit button on religion are those to whom it really mattered - to whom things like god were so important that they wanted to know as much as they could - to get it right and get as close to their faith as possible. And never expected to see the man behind the curtain was not even there.

I studied my way out by wanted to get deeply in. Just love the irony."

Kudos. I feel like this is what I did too.

It nice to see that observation validated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2010 03:39PM by MJ.

I do not believe that Morons are close at all to Atheists/Agnostics on religious knowledge.

Have you ever tried to communicate with a Moron about religion???

Having the knowledge and being able to articulate and communicate and impart that knowledge go hand in hand and Morons are not able to do that...just try it sometime.

The only thing Morons know less about than the origins of their own religion are the pagan origins of Xtianity.

The only thing Morons "know" and believe is the LAST THING they were told to "know" or believe by some lying-geriatric-loser-at-the-bully pulpit of semi-annual Gen-Con!

Morons have had to tip-toe over, under, around and through REALITY & TRUTH for their entire existence!!!

Or so it seems to me...

...you see some funny things, like 7% of Mormons didn't know Joseph Smith's religion.

"I know, um, some guy was a prophet of God."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2010 09:27AM by Stray Mutt.

I was actually surprised that so many people did so badly on this. I actually considered most of the questions to be pretty straightforward. Out of the full 32, only three were a little obscure and, IMHO, only one was generally hard (the Maimonides one).

I did get a chuckle out of atheists being the "winners" on this quiz. They lost to Mormons and white evangelicals on Christianity-related questions (but not by much, mind you) but dominate on world religion questions. My take is that most theists are somewhat well versed in their own religion, but tend to know almost nothing outside of it.

they need to ask harder questions. Especially if it's multiple choice with only 3 choices and one of the choices is easy to eliminate (because it's dumb).

14/15 here.

Then again, if that's in the 99%, maybe the questions ARE challenging to people.

I think the Mormons know a lot (compared to other religions) because religion matters a lot to them. And they have a lot of training (3 hours on Sundays, seminary, institute, and personal/family scripture study). Also, religious history figures into the story of WHY the founding of Mormonism was supposedly necessary. I know I also learned about things about other religions that didn't make sense (transubstantiation . . . REALLY?). JWs also study a lot, and compare themselves with other religions so they know stuff as well.

Another 15/15 from an atheist. :-)