Someone just emailed me with a comment that they had heard Packer's talk today had several anti-gay comments. I'm not up on the best and fastest way to get a copy of the talks and/or actually hear what was said. I'd like to nail this down, because I would bet my last dollar that if he did, it will be edited out of the Ensign version. If anyone hear had to listen to it, would like to hear your perception. And if anyone knows how to find a link right away, please post it here.

Sue

They were thinly veiled comments. He never said gays or homosexuals. "There are those who seek to legalize lmmorality." etc. Family proclamation one man one woman mumbo jumbo. Then a "we have made our position known and will not back down. 'hack, cough, gargle'"

"the power to create offspring ““is not an incidental part of the plan of happiness. It is the key — the very key.”

Then why are some kids born with ambiguous genitals? Why are some born sterile? Why is it possible for some kids to be born with a combination that is other than XX or XY?

But most importantly, why does the church have to impose its beliefs and values on others who do not share their beliefs? They would be complaining out of the other side of their mouth if there was a movement to outlaw Mormon marriages!

My wife and I don't have children, I guess the reason the ward always treated us like shit is because we are hell-bound and will will never realize the 'key' to eternal MoMo happiness.

"But most importantly, why does the church have to impose its beliefs and values on others who do not share their beliefs? They would be complaining out of the other side of their mouth if there was a movement to outlaw Mormon marriages!"

Ah, but that's the essence of being Christian, what-what?

"we have made our position known and will not back down."

This church has a history of backing down.

Wilford Woodruff

"If we were to do away with polygamy, it would only be one feather in the bird, one ordinance in the Church and kingdom. Do away with that, then we must do away with prophets and Apostles, with revelation and the gifts and graces of the Gospel, and finally give up our religion altogether and turn sectarians and do as the world does, then all would be right. We just can't do that, for God has commanded us to build up His kingdom and to bear our testimony to the nations of the earth, and we are going to do it, come life or come death. He has told us to do thus, and we shall obey Him in days to come as we have in days past" (JOD 13:165 - p.166).


So lets do away with these so called prophets and apostles then.

...at the recent stake meeting in California. At that meeting, presumably good healing happened between (1) gays in the stake and (2) Church leadership as somewhat represented by GA Jensen. I am sure that the presence and contribution of the courageous Carol Lynn Pearson very much added to the atmosphere of healing as well.

What are Carol Lynn Pearson's thoughts and feelings NOW, after hearing this BKKKP talk, I wonder? Is her faith in the goodness of the Mormon church STILL completely unaffected by the church's hardline condemnation of gays such as her beloved late husband?

As to those in the stake meeting who dared to feel new hope... how very sad. As is too plain, you will NOT find love and acceptance in the Church of Bigotry of Latter Day Saints.

Here is what a good friend, and SHAFT poster, Jon, posted from Packer's talk:

"Any persuasion to enter into any relationship not in harmony with the Gospel must necessarily be wrong... Some Suppose that they were pre-set and cannot overcome what they feel are inborn tendencies toward the impure and the unnatural. Not so. Why would our Heavenly Father, do that to anyone? ... God will not suffer you to be tempted above what ye are able... You can if you will, break the habits and conquer the addiction and come away from that which is not worthy of any member of the church.... Wo unto them who call evil good and good evil....

[T]here are those today who not only tolerate but advocate voting to change lives that would legalize immorality. As if a vote could somehow alter the designs of God's laws of nature.

A law against nature would be impossible to enforce. For instance, what good would the law against, vote against the law of gravity do? There are both moral and physical laws irrevocably decreed in Heaven before the foundation of the world that cannot be changed. History demonstrates over and over again that moral standards cannot be changed by battle and cannot be changed by ballot. To legalize that which is basically wrong or evil will not prevent the pain and penalties that will follow as sure as night follows day."

He's hopelessly out of touch and completely ignorant (or evil, I haven't decided which). Sounds like he was squarely behind the California fiasco.

My thought, exactly, about hanging himself and the church with his own rope, if he were just around a little longer. He's blatantly ugly in his misunderstandings/judgments of others.

This man has made some truly wonderful and interesting people suffer during his tenure in TSCC leadership. He's a little man--in every negative sense, self-serving, myopic, uninformed, bigoted. He loathes humankind. He has nothing to say worth hearing.

Is this Redundant old man still alive?

Packer states:
"There are those today who not only tolerate but advocate voting to change laws that would legalize immorality, as if a vote would somehow alter the designs of God’s laws and nature...A law against nature would be impossible to enforce. Do you think a vote to repeal the law of gravity would do any good?”

---Hmmmm - last I checked, the laws of gravity can be tested, measured and proven...Since when can TSCC do that with Laws of Dog? Or that Dog even exists?


"the power to create offspring “is not an incidental part of the plan of happiness. It is the key — the very key.”"

----The key the LD$ Inc.'s bottom line. We MUST have future tithe payers - who will pay for our mall?

"Some argue that “they were pre-set and cannot overcome what they feel are inborn tendencies toward the impure and unnatural,” he said. “Not so! Why would our Heavenly Father do that to anyone? Remember he is our father.”"

----And yet, you claim that we are all born guilty of sin, and that we must attain salvation. If we are born in sin, we MIGHT be born gay.

Alluding to the Utah-based church’s support of laws such as California’s Proposition 8 that would define marriage as exclusively between a man and a woman, Packer said, “Regardless of the opposition, we are determined to stay on course...We cannot change; we will not change,”".

---Yeah, you guys keep that up - let me know how that works out for you. PLEASE continue to show your bigotry to all the world. Also, I'd reeeaaalllyy like them to own up to the one man, one woman line - you know, like how their doctrine teaches and how they practice celestial marriages (snort).

The thing I take note of--and I've said before--for them it always comes back to SEX. Given how they handled "us" before we married--mormon leaders think with their dicks. They can only think in terms of their own experience--they cannot empathize (which, according to my therapist means a complete lack of emotional intelligence). All the leaders could think of was if my boyfriend could get turned on by a woman, then he would never go back to having sex with men.

I also agree that someone as obsessed with gay issues as Packer has a problem himself. He and SWK.

As I told my ex SILs about their brother--I tell them, I did what SWK said in the MofF--I knocked on that door until my knuckles were bloody and I knocked that f*cking door down.

I'm so sick of hearing SSA--it isn't same SEX attraction. It is WHO they love. Does it matter what gender? It is who they connect to physically, mentally, emotionally, AND sexually--but it is the WHOLE PERSON--IT ISN'T JUST ABOUT THE SEX.

The GAs are basically perverts--the whole leadership is. Think about it. I learned more about sex from the bishop than I did anywhere else--when they were trying to "convert" my boyfriend. I was pretty much told we could do ANYTHING but have intercourse and we'd get a temple recommend--after they had told me all my life that I had to SAVE MYSELF. I know for a fact that had we had intercourse, they still would have allowed us to marry in the temple. Once we were married, they had "saved" yet another one and we were held up as an example to other gays to get them married off.

It makes me physically sick to hear this stuff.

Exactly, cl2. BKKKP and the GAs are obsessed with sex, and other people's sex lives.

If the power to create offspring is the key, then all unable to have children due to age, infertility, etc, should be refused temple marriage.

And I felt bad for couples with fertility problems. He didn't condemn them, but he rubbed a little salt in the wounds.

Kind of insensitive, huh?

One little thought on Packer's talk: There is no such thing as the "Law of Gravity" One might refer to the "law of falling objects", but there is no such thing as the Law of Gravity. It is the Theory of Gravity, which has been tested and observed for centuries.

Obviously, even a high school student knows this and understands scientific theory. You would think a man with a PhD (albeit from BYU) woud know this basic fact.

I take issue with one statment Packer made that is false.

Mormons do not believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. (Now they do, sort of)

Mormons really believe that marriage is between a man and a woman plus another woman plus another woman...etc.

There are only two types of people who are obsessed with food: The morbidly obese and anorexics.

In terms of sexual relationships, this analogy is the church of jesus christ of latter day saints in a nutshell; It is obsessed with sex,

- Paraphrase of Stephen Fry (about the catholic church, ironically enough)

This is the second time in a general session that a GA has singled out husbands and fathers as the prime users of porn. I think last time it was Scott.

Now the kids all wonder if Daddy is a pervert.

That kind of statement should be reserved for a PH session. The kids don't need to hear it.