So, I know several Christians who are happy to discuss the many problems of mormonism with me.

Over the past few days, I have mentioned the Packer talk to a couple of them.

They think Packer was right to say those things.

Some Christians will agree with Packer. Many won't. But, unlike the LDS church, most Christian churches don't have the "if you're not with us, you're against us!" mentality that LDS has. That's one of the big differences- you can believe differently than your pastor and not be unworthy.

As a exmo born-again Christian I do believe homosexuality is a sin, one of thousands of sins. Where does it stack up against the sins I commit every day? I've got enough of my own sins to worry about (lying, lust, etc.). The bible says if you committed one sin you are guilty of them all.

It really bothers me that the LDS church would focus on this one issue while avoiding their OBVIOUS problems of self-righteousness, pride, lying, lust, etc. It would be refreshing to hear a single case where an LDS authority stands up and admit they are a sinner and they struggle with this or that... It happens in Christian circles all the time.

Why can't we just preach Jesus to EVERYBODY (including homosexuals). Jesus is the savior for all of our sins, past, present, and future. We will never be worthy to receive his free gift of salvation. All we have to do is repent, and trust in him to be forgiven. Individual sins will be revealed by the Holy Spirit after someone has come to Christ (through the sanctification process). Sins are between the sinner and Jesus, not between Boyd K Packer and his followers.

Honestly before becoming a Christian I had a hateful heart toward homosexuals. Now I can honestly say I love them just as much as anyone else.

“You can safely assume you have created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates the same people you do.” --Annie Lamott

I love Anne Lamott! And that is one of my very favorite quotes from her.

Man creates a god in his own image and then adamantly follows everything he tells it to say.

"It really bothers me that the LDS church would focus on this one issue while avoiding their OBVIOUS problems of self-righteousness, pride, lying, lust, etc."

If you listen to any of the other conference talks you would see that they do talk about all those other issues; it's just that the more cortorversial ones get the media attention and more conversation in the public forums.

Pride, avarice, lying, etc. All the big sins of the 'soul' that the self righteous joften have.

I'm wondering why christians or other religious types consider homosexuality a "sin." Is it because they've given the matter deep and earnest thought, or because a highly questionable religious document refers to it as such in an obscure bit 'o' scripture?

I ran into several Packer supporters on Facebook yesterday who excused the man's deplorable and ill-informed statements as simply telling folks what god had told him. In my mind, that's no different than a christian or other religious type saying its a sin because the Bible says so.

My problem with the righteous, no matter what stripe, is that they love homosexuals, even though they consider homosexuality a sin, then go out and pull the "Yes" lever in the voting booth on propositions aimed at denying homosexuals equal rights and protection under the law.

Mormons, catholics, evangelical christians. Not a one gives the matter serious thought. They just consider it a "sin" and react accordingly because a prophet, pope, pastor or piece of religious pulp fiction told them so.

I submit that there isn't a single person who has ever lived on this planet that is more "in-tune" with the will of god than I am. I further submit that all holy scriptures and sacred writings have been manufactured by humans, not gods. Such being the case, homosexuality is not a sin. It just is.

Learn to live with it, folks. Its really not that big a deal!

Timothy

It's just as wrong for them as it is for Packer. I'm ashamed to say that I used the whole, "Hate the sin and love the sinner." line myself when I was a Christian. It makes me cringe now.

Christian institutions representing the vast majority of Christianity preach some sort of intolerance or discrimination against gays, so there is no shocker that many Christians tow that line.

I sometimes attend a Catholic church and I know that it teaches that homosexuality is a sin. The difference is that many members including priests disagree and they don't, at least the times I have attended, talk about it in church. In fact , the seldom talk about sexual sins over the pulpit. It could be different in other congregations, but that is my experience. I have attended other churches as well and have never heard anyone discuss homosexuality.I stay away from Funide churches, but have never heard it discussed in mainstream churches.

The main difference being that mormonism emphasizes works more than most other churches - where faith and grace overcome everything.

Still, the idea that some old man in a suit can tell every person how they are supposed to feel is just silly.

My tbm mother-in-law once told me that she would rather her son was dead than gay. That is definately a mormon mind set. I am a devout catholic and I cant imagine a catholic mom, or any other christian mom, ever saying this about her child. I have three sons and if one of them turns out to be gay I would not cease to love him. I would, perhaps, love him more as he would need more.

Someone said something about the "ick" factor--that is what a lot of this comes down to is the "ick" factor. What does that say for most people--that they only see gays in terms of the sex. They don't see them as individual people. You're gay, so you have sex "this way."

What if gays looked as us heterosexuals and said the same thing. I KNOW they look at heterosexual sex and think "ick."

BUT the heterosexuals have to put themselves on a pedestal and say, "We have sex this way, so we are better than you." That is what it comes down to.

this is a whoops post.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2010 12:49PM by cl2.

Packer gave the LDS believers something to hold onto and back up their position.

Now the Mormons can quote Packer as a leader they are required to follow and have someone to back them up.Now they can quote him with the belief they are following Heavenly Father.

It's clear that the LDS Church is not alone in their position, at least, partially.
Many states cannot even vote in same sex marriage. There is great opposition. There sure aren't enough Mormons to keep that from happening either.

And so it goes. This topic will be filled with controversy for many more generations in my view.

The KKK would agree with him too.

http://chronicle.augusta.com/latest-news/2010-10-05/klan-rally-support-asu-student-keeton

The counseling department required her to learn about homosexuality as a requirement for receiving a postgraduate degree and counseling certification.

My BornAgain coworker is all over the antigay movement. He normally claims that mormons are a bunch of devil worshipping freemasons, but now at least there is something that he can love them for.

He used to show me all kinds of antimormon/freemason stuff and he hated Catholics and democrats, he almost got fired for antimuslim comments after 9/11. Personally, I don't want him to know about Boyds lecture because he'll be all over that.


Seriously, this guy and his BornAgainst friends make BKP look like Liberace.

As a Catholic (with several family members who are or have converted to LDS) I am often amazed at the number of Catholics who are clueless at what their Church actually teaches--not just about Homosexuality, but most moral questions, including birth control (only articficial contraception is forbidden, and not by the Pope, but that's not something that can be expained here or easily).

Homosexual behavior is condemned, not being homosexual. Which is why so many of us who are faithful have no problem with civil marriage between gay couples--that is a legal act--rendered unto Cesar and not recognized by the Catholic Church. Yes folks, the Catholic Church does not, has not,never has and never will recognize civil marriage. You will never hear a Catholic priest say at a wedding, 'by the power invested in me by the state of . . .' because the Catholic Church recognizes only Church marriages. Whether or not gay people marry in a civil marriage should not show up on the radar of the Catholic church, so when it does, those of us who acutally pay attention to the Bible and the Church's teachings are outraged. Real marriage is a sacrament that can take place only in a church--and since that will never happen between a gay couple, the Catholic Church and its' members should just shut up about it.

I'm an exmo Lutheran, and my church is "open and affirming" of practicing homosexuals. There are all types of Christians. Unfortunately, it's the "fundangelical" Christians that tend to dominate the airwaves.