Going to the temple after my mission was one of the most faith destroying events of my life. I tried like crazy to find an explanation for the video but I could find nothing from temple workers, from church contacts, or from friends on what the subjects might mean.

I asked one temple worker why women had to veil their faces and he just mumbled something about respect for the priesthood. Every question I asked from anyone receieved a similar response.

I remember when Satan looks right at the audience and threatens them that if they do not live up to the covenants they make in the temple that they will be in his power. I asked why Satan was talking to me in the temple and got nothing. I saw it as a not-so thinly veiled threat or fear tactic.

I remember when Satan responds to Peter's question "What is being taught?" with "The philosophies of men mingled with scripture." I thought to myself, is that what he is telling me is being taught in here? Is that what this temple experience is?

What are some of your experiences you had trying to make sense of the non-sensical in the temple?

. . . were you too excited before to really notice disturbing details? I've never been to the temple, so the before/after mission visits might vary.

When I had a temple ceremony described to me, I was certain that my younger TBM sister who had been married in one such place, would have been secretly horrified by it. This was before they removed the anointing thing and she hates to be touched. But she said she felt the spirit, thus blotting out all else . . .

I remember having every one I thought loved me there while I was asking these questions. Those experiences don't leave a lot of room for ducking out the back door.

was getting baptized for dead people. I wondered why we couldn't just wear white swim suits instead of that thick fabric that made it difficult to move around in the font. I was certain I was going to drown by the time I was dunked the tenth time. Still, I felt the 'spirit' and left imagining all those people rushing through the gates to be with magic-man. The lady who submitted all the names was gushing and crying about how she could feel the love and thanks from them.

and was deeply saddened that none of my family would say anything to make any sense of it. If I would use one word for my first temple trip it'd be "lonely."

On the mission I relished temple trips because I got to sit for an extended period of time, even with the obnoxious clothing readjustments. I didn't give half a shit what it meant, whether I was supposed to in some sort of elevated spiritual state. I didn't care anymore at that point; the whole religion had turned me numb to it all.

After consciously renouncing Mormonism it started being interesting again because I was free to study out a more accurate picture of it. I now see the temple in this wise: in the earlier Kirtland years it was an attempt to establish TSCC as a real respectable religion, and probably a monument to Smith's ego.

In the later Nauvoo years the temple morphed into something rather different. This coincided with the new corporeal (embodied in flesh) God doctrine and eternal posterity, and the polygamy doctrine trying to be brought into the open. IMO, this was a time when Smith was trying to keep the lid on the hot kettle he'd created, leading him to teach a new physical God that propagates in the eternities. In other words at this point he was mainly trying to justify polygamy so it could be lived openly.

I haven't done the research to be certain, but I think the Nauvoo temple was all about polygamy. Having that edifice and adorning it with elaborate spiritual ideas and behavior, adding an official marriage ceremony and a "holiest of holies," to consummate it, and allowing only special "worthy" innercircle people was probably all an attempt to turn polygamy into something divinely proffered.

The current temple is just a watered-down version of that. I shudder at how horrible the original must have been. Now all that's asked is not your virgin daughter, but just all your "times, talent and possessions," should you be called upon for it, which is often.

I see the temple endowment as a way for the mormon religion to control its people, and nothing else. They trump it up as if it is supposed to be some grand, mystical, spiritual experience, but it isn't. One covenants to be obedient, and to sacrifice their lives for the Kingdom of god, if necessary. One also covenants to give everything they have to the church(not to god):

"...covenant to sacrifice all that we possess, even our own lives if necessary, in sustaining and defending the Kingdom of God."

"You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in this, (The Officiator holds up a copy of the Doctrine and Covenants again.), the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion."

Its about control. Whatever the church asks you to do, you do it. Because, after all, you went into the temple and made a promise to do whatever it is that the church asks you to do.

Ooooh, creepiest one, when they tell you too commit your life and everything else you have to the church. If that isn´t cult-like enough, I don´t know what is. Seriously, why not to jesus or god, but to an organization, right...

I think that people just don't know, and can't even find out themselves. They sure as hell aren't going to admit that. Is this why Jerrold Chesney (am I getting his name right?) quit the church when he was temple president? I mean, if you are an honest sort, and the answers never come even when you are the temple president, we have a serious problem.

You may have noticed that temple preparation teaches you nothing substantial about the temple. They sing and dance around the subject, but when you go there for the first time, nothing has prepared you.

Be glad, if you went after 1990, that you weren't standing there promising three times to kill yourself for ever revealing the tokens of the priesthood. You used to pantomime your own death, first by slitting of the throat, then by disembowelment, and then by cutting out of the heart, for revealing the tokens of the priesthood. On the last token, they would say something like, "No penalty has been revealed for the second token of the Melchizedek Priesthood, but we assume it carries the same degree of punishment (i.e., death) as the others." I'm paraphrasing, because I can't remember. My guess is that they ran out of death penalties. I mean, after throat-slitting, disembowelment, and tearing out of the hear, what remains besides something like tearing you a new as$hole? And besides, how would you pantomime that one?

The temple spooked me. The first time I went my parents got to be the witness couple and I watched them transform into something I was afraid of. I don't know why, I was just a little afraid.

Subsequent visits to the temple I got the same message you describe-
Satan was talking about us when he said philosophies of men mingles with scripture. The thing is, I totally got it, but it didn't make sense because I was in the House o' the Lord.

And I understood the threat when he looked at us.

And I recall that on one of the Garden scenes, there was a sort of shadow or something in the larger boulder that reminded me of the classic horned devil.

I really loved doing baptism for the dead, and Sealings too, but the Endowment weirded me out. And thankfully I never went to the pre 1990 sessions, 'cuz I think I would have walked out.

The other thing that I never got, was why God had to have PJ&J cast satan out, or why he had to ask Jehovah whether Man was on the earth, or if it was good to be alone.

Or why only the people were an apron as commaded by lucifer, but never the officiators, God, Jehovah, Michael, Peter James or John, or even Adam and Eve. Only those of us to whom Lucifer speaks directly.

I never made it to the endowment stage, as I quit going to church at age 18, but I can remember my parents telling me that "it was the single most special event in everyones life, and all in the world would make more sense to me after experiencing it..."

A few years ago I found out, on this site, what actually happens, and I was dumbfounded! I'm not sure what I expected it to be, but I certanly expected it to be more than a couple of secret handshakes, a dumb movie, even dumber clothes, and "pay lay ale" (I would have been before 1990)! I can't look at my TBM family the same way anymore...How could you find something this juvenile uplifting? I have been to college fraternity inductions that were more reverent, and meaningful that this! I will never know how I would have reacted if I had went there as a TBM, but I'm pretty sure I would have laughed and laughed, then cried at the waste of my life, then laughed some more, and left as an EXMO.

I figured out that the creator of the world ..who created even the smallest organism and spec of matter could most certainly come up with something better than the temple ceremony.
I knew in a matter of minutes of going in there that it was made up by men.

Going to the temple the first time before my mission was the very first time I had serious doubts about the "truthfulness" of moism.

The washing & anointing and endowment amounted to me at the time to pagan ceremonies. Immediately after leaving, I told my parents that. They spent most of that weekend trying to calm my doubts. I felt I had made a gargantuan mistake signing up for a mission and a life-long commitment to a church that seemed to want to threaten me if I didn't give them everything I owned, stop loud laughter and so forth.

It was surreal.

Years later when they took out the bloody oaths and penalties, I decided that the temple must not be revelation. That's when I started the slide down that took more than a decade for me to finally say stop. But I never ever felt solid again after that, despite serving in bishopricks, as gospel doctrine teacher and in stake callings.

As far as the creation story its not supposed to be that inspiring I don't think. It is in some ways from the masons. They use the story of Hiram Abiff and some virgin in their initiation, and we use Adam and Eve and the creation. Seriously.

The best explanation I can think for the veils would be 1 Cor. 11:5, which talks about how every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head. This would contradict the previous verse though which talks about how men are not supposed to pray with covered heads - which men do at the temple. So pretty much it makes no sense to me and I have never found a good explanation and they need to give one. I'm surprised more women and men do not demand one since it seems totally sexist and barbaric.

Yeah the Satan looking in the camera thing always bothered me, because I don't think the whole fear thing is a good way to go.

As far as the "philosophies of men mingled with scriptures" that confused me the first time I went through too, and I didn't realize why until I recently read the original temple ceremony http://www.i4m.com/think/temples/temple_ceremony.htm. In that there is a sectarian minister preaching to Adam and Eve about things and that was taken out to be less offensive. Also satans reference to Popes and Priests was taken out.

Of course when Joseph Smith said that 'Ordinances instituted in the heavens before the foundation of the world, in the priesthood, for the salvation of men, are not to be altered or changed' he must have been speaking with limited light and knowledge, or as a man not a prophet. The funny thing is the current temple video for temple workers has a quote by James E. Faust that says "temple ordinances instituted before the foundation of the world...are not to be changed or altered." hmmm...sound familiar.

I also always thought all the repitition was not very "spiritual." I guess this is common for masons, repeating and re-repeating. A good interview for comparisons with masons can be downloaded here http://mormonstories.org/?p=14

Ha last interesting point that I read on mormonthink.com is that the angels Peter, James, and John shake hands with Adam. How is that possible seeing as they are spirits and he is human? It contradicts section 129...oopsies :)

That is funny, I never thought of the shaking hands bit.