Yesterday, I was talking with my daughter (11) whose tbm mom is very controlling and sheltering (no internet, limited access to me or other no-mos). Daughter told me that my problem is that I'm too negative and can't see the positive in the church, which is why I left. She said that the BoM is troo because she feels it is in her heart. I asked if it was possible to feel something and it turns out false. She said that it's possible, but that there's more--there's evidence. The BoM is true because it is a book, and that is evidence of Joseph Smith's story being truthful.

I tried to explain that having a book is not evidence, just as a novel is not true just because it is printed. That scientists have found loads of data that counter the claims in the BoM.

She said that she knows there are scientists that are mormon and they wouldn't believe something if it really was false. I explained that nearly all scientist don't believe it, and that a few misguided ones don't make it true, after all, scientists are human and free to believe what they want whether true or false.

Her stance became tighter towards her feelings. That she knows that when she has faith and lives righteously, she feels the spirit and it strengthens her faith. I tried to explain that people of other faiths also feel their beliefs are true, even if they contradict mormon teachings. It didn't take at all. After that, I could only tell her that I appreciate her sharing it with me and hoped she would do so in the future.

The attitude during the conversation was very much like my ex--that because she felt something good, it was proof-positive that everyone that said differently was just plain wrong. Her mind is closing. And her tbm mom is the one holding the knob and keys as she locks the daughter in.

I really don't know if there is anything I can do...

she's developed yet. Don't give up hope. It's good she's talking to you about it.

She's eleven - there is a long way to go yet.

She may or may not remain TBM. If she does, what then? Do you want to have a relationship with her or not? If yes, then you may have to support her choice to believe even if it painful for you to watch.

She may not remain TBM. If she doesn't, then she will need a safe place to land with someone who loves her no matter what. But if you don't have a relationship, you can't provide that safe place.

My TBM daughter and her husband know my opinion of the LDS church but we have set that aside in order to maintain a positive relationship. Guess where they are spending Thanksgiving? My house. They can do that because they know I won't be attacking their beliefs. It's more important to have a relationship than to prove I'm right.

We don't like it when TBMs attack us for our non-belief. Don't we owe them the same respect?

Are they going to do things like demand that a prayer be given before the eating begins?

michael Wrote:
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> Are they going to do things like demand that a
> prayer be given before the eating begins?


They never have before.

I was also the child of a mixed marriage. My mon was TBM and my dad was an inactive Catholic. When I was 11 , I would have reacted much the same as your daughter and look at me now. If I were you, I wouldn't push it too much and give her time. She could come around.Give her some thongs to think about without being too obvious.

bona dea Wrote:
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>Give her some thongs to think
> about without being too obvious.

Thongs for an 11 year old girl? That will really help with his tbm ex. lol!

I am sure you meant 'thoughts', but your mind had wandered for a moment there.

Jesus Smith Wrote:
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> bona dea Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >Give her some thongs to think
> > about without being too obvious.
>
> Thongs for an 11 year old girl? That will really
> help with his tbm ex. lol!
>
> I am sure you meant 'thoughts', but your mind had
> wandered for a moment there.

Actually I meant things. I need to proofread. LOL. Thongs might do it. Who knows. Actually a lot of my 7th grade students wear thongs. Got to wonder what the parents are thinking.

Thongs were popular (and probably still are) when I was in middle school. I don't talk to my students about their underwear, but I'd be shocked if much has changed since I was a kid not so long ago.

Tiff Wrote:
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> Thongs were popular (and probably still are) when
> I was in middle school. I don't talk to my
> students about their underwear, but I'd be shocked
> if much has changed since I was a kid not so long
> ago.

Well, you don't have to talk to them about their undies when they are wearing thongs with low rider jeans and belly shirts. It wasn't just the thongs, but the kids I noticed wearing them were dressed like they should be working as hookers. You might be right about them being popular. If they don't flaunt them, you wouldn't know.It just seems a little sexy for a 12 year old

and thinks she's smart. I hope she eventually is able to leave.

Dude! Lead by example and quit preaching to her so much. My ex is still TBM and none of our sons set foot in church.

Just sayin'...

Ron

When I was her age I was the same. I was super high on the spirit and nothing could shake my testimony. I wouldn't be to worried she sounds smart and if I could see the church for what it was then I think in time she will too.

Don't directly criticize.

Do teach her to think by asking questions about every day observations, and not necessarily ones about belief. And answer hard questions, truthfully... perhaps by asking her why she is interested in those answers.

Build her up in ways that help her trust her own logic. Kids rarely hear that their parents trust their ability to think a problem through, reach a logical conclusion, look critically at problems and develop solutions. Do that for a couple of years, targeting not her religious beliefs but other views. One of the favorite sayings in our family is "You are going to have to convince me". We used that with discussions on politics, curfews, cleaning their room, world events, and yes even religion. My kids can hold their own -respectfully- in any debate but also concede when they think they are wrong. The church doesn't want free thinkers. Train her well, and when she hits 13, set back and watch the sparks fly.

I presume she lives with her mother? And as such, she'll say and do what is expected, generally. You're the odd man out right now, and she doesn't have a clue what happened or why.
She will parrot what her mother says, like most little girls her age.

She's only 11. She's got a lot of time. I would stop preaching to her directly and instead encourage her to do research on science related topics. (If you feel that she would be inclined to do so.) Otherwise, I agree with the suggestion to lead by example.

as you put, your ex-wife limiting your time with your daughter. I don't know if you live near your daughter or in another state, but your ex-wife has no right to interfere with the normal father-daughter relationship. This includes frequent and reasonable telephone contact, visitation, your right to be kept informed of your child's health and school reports, her school activities, etc.

I agree with the other posters, however, that maybe you should lighten up on the Mormon stuff and let this 11 year old work it out for herself. Instead, I'd concentrate on the daddy-daughter stuff and downplay Mormonism and not let your ex-wife thwart access to your kid.