Anyone remember when Kimball was worked up about how dirty Mormons had become? He did a whole campaign to have Mormons be a shining example of cleanliness. I guess he figured the missionary effort would be hosed if everyone identified Mormons with dirt.

Anyway, I've had to home teach a lot of people, and have met some real pieces of work in the church. I can forgive the fringe members who have a lot of emotional and/or financial problems. What I couldn't forgive were the active, temple-working, class-teaching, position-holding Mormons who lived lives of filth. I've had to go running for cover when a toddler was allowed to hold and play with his own dung, then came at me. I have seen people allow their dogs and cats to shit on the carpet in spite of having toddlers in the house, or floors and toilets that hadn't ever been cleaned. Some of these people had positions such as bishop, stake high counselor, Relief Society president, etc.

Anyway, worst story: A couple who were permanent temple workers and who had like eight kids. They would leave all the kids untended while they went to the temple. They'd cook up about ten packs of Top Ramen and put the mess into a big bowl--no serving bowls, plates, table ware, nothing. It was like leaving food in a bowl for the dog. The kids would go over and grab a handful of soupy noodles and wipe their messy hands on their clothes. The table was filthy with old, dried noodles and soup. then they would go outside and play barefoot in the shade of a mulberry tree, and track the mulberry juice into the house all over the destroyed hardwood and carpet floor. They used an ancient apron to wipe up all messes--no paper towels, no kitchen or tea towels. The house reeked of shit- and urine-stained toilets and unwiped butts. There was a carton of milk laying on the floor with all the contents spilt in to a putrefying puddle. Then on Sunday they would talk about how they made their house a place where Jesus would always be welcome.

Got any dirty Mormon stories? Certainly somebody must have seen something bad.

Yes, that was her last name. The poor dear died a few years after her husband, but managed to acquire a household full of crap during those few years. She would have been a prime candidate for any of those new hoarder shows.

The ward was volunteered to clean out the house after she passed, including my grandpa. It took months. Literally, months.

A family in the ward growing up had 10+ children... the dad was the bishop of the ward. The mother would lie in bed and watch daytime tv all day.

Naked children... feces on the floor... the whole she-bang..

Pretty much the exact story you told.

They had a dog which they never seemed to feed... they took out its vocal chords and it was a yasping skin and bones mangy golden retriever...poor thing. It ran away every two or three weeks but they always managed to catch him. One day the dog ran away and was gone for about a month... they got a call and the dog was over 100 miles away.

No matter how far away that dog ran they always seemed to get him... poor thing.

Sounds like that dog wanted out of the morg too.

And the neighbor came over to meet us. She went on and on about what a lazy slob the former, Mormon housewife was, how the husband did all the work to keep things clean and how lucky we were that the woman's parents came over to help her clean before they moved out because we'd have a mess on our hands if they hadn't. Funny - the house always seemed clean when we visited with the real estate agent, the house inspector etc.

Then, days later, we went to visit the neighbor's house and were shocked this woman had the gall to complain about the former owners of our house. Her house was absolutely filthy. There were dirty dishes piled everywhere, gunky dirt in the corners of the counters, floor etc. and junk piled everywhere. The house reeked of mold. And don't even get me started on the piles of piles in the garage. I've had times when I was so depressed and overwhelmed by being Mormon that my house was a mess so I try to be pretty understanding about messy Mormons but the filthiness of her house, combined with her spiteful comments about her previous messy neighbor were just unbelievable. Oh, and did I mention that she ran a pre-school out of her home two days a week and all the kids from the ward attended? I couldn't believe that parents would let their babies run wild in that house. My kids went somewhere else.

while they were going to the temple. My companion and I were left with no money, no food, no diapers and a boat load of kids to care for. We diapered the baby in a tea towel and fed kids cocktail olives, crackers, and stale cheese. These people were gone all day. I think they expected us to pay for the necessities.

I find that the state of a person's home, reflects their mental and emotional state.

When I'm really depressed, overwhelmed, and stressed out-- my house gets messy.

But when something great happenes, and I'm just in such a wonderful mood! I want EVERYTHING else to be wonderful too-- so it gives me this burst of energy and go on a cleaning spree, and get the whole place spotless.

So basically, if my house is a mess at the moment-- you know something is very, very wrong. Besides just the mess.

Of coruse, when you are depressed, a messy surrounding only makes you feel worse. Then both you and the mess get worse. and when its clean, you may be depressed, but its a little better than it would have been if it were dirty.

But also, when you are overwhelmed and stressed/depressed, it is sooooooooooo hard to force yourself to get up and take care of the mess, lol. and that's just when you live alon! But when you have kids multiplying it... I can imagine (I don't have kids, and my home is still a challenge to clean when I'm not at my best, lol).

Basically, when I see a messy house, I never think "Oh these people are horrible pigs". My first instinct is to think that the marriage is probably on the rocks, or the adults are just feeling lost and stuck. Maybe thinking of giving up. Maybe they never got where they wanted to go in life, or they had kids long before they were ready to, and now they just feel like they are in everything way too deep.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2010 11:55PM by melissa3839.

some were so spotless you could eat on the floor. I could never keep up with that kind of fanatical cleaning!

Some in the very expensive housing areas had housekeepers, and nanny's.

Many of the ladies hired a housekeeper at least once a month.

In fact, when we lived in new married student housing at BYU, there was an unwritten contest to see who could do the best job cleaning those goofy floors, etc. We exchanged cleaning and storage tricks to make the best of the small spaces.

A relative that is no longer LDS didn't clean house or clean up after the animals (not often anyhow.)The house smelled awful.

I can only recall a couple of houses that were stinky or messy but nothing that would bring in the health dept or were hoarders.

I don't think it is particularly a Mormon problem. Most of the homes I know, Mormon or not are reasonably clean. Of course, it is harder to keep things clean and neat if you have a large family.

Hard to keep a house clean when you spend so much free time with church requirements

I spent part of my mission in Puerto Rico and another part in the Utah North Mission.

This was in 1985. One day we were told we were going to visit the family of the Hansen twins. These were the conjoined girls who were born conjoined at the head and were separated successfully except that they were both developmentally disabled as a result. The twins were probably 3-4 years old at the time (though I'm not sure). Anyway, they were a very famous family at the time because of the rarity of conjoined twins joined at the head being separating and surviving. The parents had been on every possible news program in the country and were giving the church exposure it did not usually get outside of Utah. So, I was excited to meet them, of course.

I remember we entered through the front door and the house looked as if if had been ransacked by a SWAT team. We literally had to step over clothes and sundry items every few steps. There were several adults in the house and the only children I remember were the separated twins who could not walk and wore head gear to protect their skulls. So it wasn't the children who turned the house upside down, it was the adults. I do not exaggerate to say that this house was unlivable. I was in shock at the filth and mess. It seemed to me this would developmentally affect these girls who needed healthy stimulation and some sense of order to assist them with the learning disabilities (and even motor skill disabilities) caused by their condition. It was the kind of home that would normally cause children to be developmentally delayed even without the brain damage these girls already had.

I grew up in poverty with an overwhelmed single mother and had never seen anything like this in my life. It was inexplicable.

Some shouldn't have had kids at all. These are people who for different reasons choose not to clean. I have a friend (i swear it's not me) who has a very big issue with this. She's brilliant, funny, intelligent, hard worker, really really good friend, but... she has issues. We all do, it just shows in different ways. Some of us are neurotic. Some of us eat too much, some of us eat too little. We're all a little fucked up, not matter how normal you may think we are.

For years as a Mormon I was too overwhelmed to keep my house as neat as possible. Also, because what I was overwhelmed with was mindless busy work, I was so bored I could hardly stand to clean - the most boring thing in the world. After I left Mormonism, life was less hectic and I found I actually liked cleaning because it was a good time to wind down from thinking and turn my brain off - now that I was actually thinking again and had work outside the home to do and something intellectual.

I also gained weight living in Utah because I was so mad at what my life had become, I ate. Not to be lazy or self-indulgent or even because I loved food. It was purely self-destructive. This was before binge-eating disorder was recognized by the average person. By the time I found out about it, I had more or less worked through it myself.

I guess my point is that you are right - everyone has something that they struggle with and a lot of things aren't what they seem to the outside world. Not by a long shot. Maybe your friend is just so smart, the brainlessness of cleaning is harder to endure than a little clutter.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2010 01:39AM by CA girl.

That's another thing, and I think I myself might struggle with it. I'm REALLY into computers, computer design, video editing, tricks with computer scripts and codes, etc, etc. I LOVEEEE to read, and I write alot. Anything that is MENTALLY stimulating.

But I'm not the neatest person in the world. I'm more of a brainiac, I never was able to focus on "just keeping the place clean", which is why I was never a stay-at-home mom-- or a mom at all! When I was active, my VT's house was always totally spotless. She was a stay at home mom, who made everything from scratch, and was jus totally preocupied with "wify, mommy" stuff. And VERY happy to be so. She used to throw "sublte suggestions" at me to be more of the "clean the home" type.

I would just look at her and laugh, like, "Hey, I know how to clean, and I'm a good cook... I learned it as a teenager, and then I had it down pat from there. But now I do it out of need ONLY. As a hobby or a career-- it holds my interest about as much as watching paint dry." lol.

Sure, my house is reasonable. But its like a cycle-- half the week it will be clean, half the week it will be cluttered.

Although I NEVER have messes on the floor, noooooo SIR! I have major issues against that. 99% of my messes are on table or counter tops--- but the floor is totally clear, lol. I guess I just never put anything on the floor. I guess I figure it does make ieasier to clean when you can do all your cleaning standing up, instead of crawling around on the floor :)

I'm one myself. It's not on the level described here (although I did live in that degree of filth once. I was living alone with my dogs and very, very depressed. My home was absolutely disgusting then and I just didn't care because of the depression. I'm much better now, though, and thinking back on those few months makes me cringe.) However, "messies" are not necessarily "filthy", they just have other priorities and will tend not to notice clutter and dust as it gathers. Then they suddenly notice it and will often become depressed at the level of work in front of them -- that can start a negative spiral. I have myself on a schedule of sorts -- which helps to keep the clutter under control. :)

My dh is a painting contractor and has done business with a LOT of members in the ward. Ocassionally-when it is so disgusting-he will take pictures with his phone camera and bring them home and show me. The worst was the home of an uppity,use to be attorney,with 3 kids (that were always immaculately dressed on Sunday in very expensive clothes) and a sucessful husband. They could easily have afforded a house cleaner. I have seen some of the most disgusting messes imaginable.

My inlaws' home is pretty bad. They have 4500 square feet with two basements and a four car garage plus outbuildings and tents and just absolutely jam packed with shit. When they bought this latest house they went to town fixing up the little front living room with the piano and picture of Jesus and the baloney Family Home Evening wooden Relief Society thing for the wall, but you step around the wrong corner and whoa. It's just another thing about them that says "We're full of baloney". Like my father-in-law shaving off his facial hair when he was put into the bishopric. It's all a facade of a disaster beneath. Mormonism ensures that everyone is trying to show a perfect front but it's rarely that way.

In another instance, the house across the street from mine is condemned. Long story short, the woman who lived there was taken away and put in a mental hospital and her home would be equivalent to one of the worse episodes of Hoarders, i.e., trash to the ceiling in every room (trash, not "stuff"), dead cats strewn throughout, the actual structure rotting away, black mold across all ceilings. Well, as it turns out she had a baby taken away from her in 1980 and that baby grew up and sought her birth mother out. Instead of fleeing in horror, this woman has made my neighbor a pet project and, is a Mormon. She has grand plans of "the whole ward" coming and "fixing the place up". It's completely insane. No Mormon woman on earth would go inside that house. The only people who ever have gone in there in its current state were wearing haz-mat suits.

I too know of morg families that lived in filth.

As a V/T some of the homes I went into were untidy but not dirty. Always a sign of having too much to do in the church. Those that had filthy homes would have had filthy homes whether a mormon or not.

that the Bishop was trying to fully reactivate. Apparently, there were 4 couples (siblings and elder parents), 8 children, 3 dogs, 2 cats, living in 1200 square feet,etc. As you sat on the couch, you would litterally little cock roaches crawling up the walls and on the floor. The carpet had ingrained/dried feces in it. The house smelled like feces and urine, etc. The basement was a hoarder paradise, but had been flooded at one point, and the mold/mildew/stench was causing respiratory problems. This idiot bishop wanted the ward to go over, clean out their basement, haul there trash away, paint their house, remove their carpet, etc. Basically what the crew on hoarders do that get paid for that. When he brought the idea/command up - I said, "Ah no, I won't do it, and nobody else should either. There are 4 ault females and 4 adult males in that house. Let them clean their own filth up." He said, "but but thsi will be a wonderful opportunity to reactivate the rest of the family." One of the few times I refused to follow an order. Of course, I was on my way out anyway.

There's an old widower in town who was in the hospital for a while. While he was gone the RS went over to clean his house. It took them over a week.

They actually had to get a scoop shovel to shovel all the cat shit off his floors. I guess he had 10 cats in his house and no litter box. My SIL said it was so bad that many of the women were vomiting.

That's been several years now. I'll bet it's just as bad now.

I used to go HT to a family who left dirty diapers all over the seats and couches. I really hated sitting down in that place. The woman was always trying to get us to take cookies home too. I never saw their kitchen but their living room was enough for me. I don't know about my partner but my cookies went into the trash. I wouldn't even feed them to a dog.

I don't think it's just Mormon families. My first instinct when I see a messy or clean house is to put that family into some financial category. My first thought is how much money the family makes. It seems that the more money the family makes, the cleaner the house will be. I've seen god-awful homes, Mormon and normal people alike. My mom cleans her house weekly, but it takes less than a few hours for the grandkids to make a huge mess of it all.

Mormons have the LDS gospel. They "know" the "truth." They're supposed to be ready "to invite the Saviour" into their homes. In the temple they receive (so they say) the truth about living life on he earth and secrets of the gospel that non-Mormons don't know. It often seemed that over 50% of them didn't live in mere messiness, but in filth. Many of the ones living in filth even had decent incomes. I just never understood it. Could be an American thing. I lived in Europe for 21 years and only saw something similar once, in a household with six kids and a ne'er-do-well husband. I just hated to be assigned as HT to a family who let their dogs crap on the floor, or go over to call a family member to a position only to find there was no place to sit down.

With so many little kids, always pregnant, nauseated and tired, perhaps the distinguished P-holder ought to pitch in a bit. (Keeping he gossipy VT's away or help if they don't like it, may help as well. Else, how woud the Prez know? He must've listen to gossip).

I agree with wine country girl. We are all dealing with something.

I also tend to believe that hoarding and a messy house are two entirely different issues.

In my neighborhood, the only really bad house is one of a quite inactive family. I had the daughter in YW and when she had was older, she would only allow me to come as her VT. I tried to explain to my new VT partner just what the house looked like inside, but she was ill prepared. She acted as though she had seen it all. The couple are now very active and have been through the temple (all their kids are raised--some live at home still).

The thing I did notice is that I got a job when my kids were 10 months old. I worked 2 evenings a week and every other weekend. The days I knew I was going to work at 3:30, I had this house spotless before I left. The days I didn't have something to "look forward to"--my house wasn't as clean.

I know for my own mother, she would clean every day when we were young. She'd clean every room every day. We'd come home to a clean house after school. By the time she died, it was more a shuffle the junk from one room to another. She couldn't throw much away, but she was far from a hoarder. What I took great notice of is that, for her, she never taught the boys to clean the house (and I have a younger brother who is disabled who lived with my parents and still lives there alone--and another brother looks in on him). My dad didn't help much around the house--he was a farmer and taught school. My mother GREW WEARY. I don't blame her. I'm weary and I only had two kids.

I think a lot of mormon moms have way to many children and then do everything for those children thinking, "If I lose myself, I'll find myself" and find out all they ever did was be a slave to their kids. I see it all around me. BUT there is only one house in my neighborhood that would quality for what you refer to here--and I live in a lower middle class area. None of the big mormon homes you see everywhere else in Utah.

Our ward once had an assignment to help this woman clean her house. the reason was because if she didn't do something about it she would have lost her government housing. so the bishop told us not to judge her but to assist with this incrediable clean up.

The apartment she lived in was horrible. I got sick from the sight of it. There were dirty old diapers with fecus behind the couch. The food was so caked on the kitchen counter tops that it took most of the day just to clean the kitchen. Her furniture had to be thrown away that's how awful it was. Someone donated furniture and other things to help her out. The place was immaculate when we left. This woman never thanked anyone for all the work this team of people did for her. NO GRATITUDE It ends tragically when only months later she lost her apartment because she never cleaned anything. She almost lost her children too. Some people are just in an old habit that can't be broken. I believe that she had some poor skills too and may have never been taught how to clean. Who knows what underlining problems or excuses she had for the way she lived. The part that really got to me was how ungrateful she was.

I was in the service industry in Utah for like 20 years and saw all that going on, it seemed like it was a status symbol for them, so that visitors would "know" that all their money was going to TSCC. I saw their "precious" "Angel Shorts" on floors being walked on, under beds, shoved in little piles on bathroom floors, on the basement steps going down to a nasty looking laundry room that could have been on that "Hoarders" show. That was very common in Utah....to live like white trash, and the wealthy ones were no better than the low income ones...I was in and out of these homes all day long and I saw both sides of the coin....so glad to be out of the morg...Sign me Utah mo no more!!!

Mormons seem to swing to one extreme or the other with their housekeeping. I've only ever been in Mormon homes where their houses looked like something out of "Good Housekeeping" or in a Mormon home that looked like an episode of "Hoarders"

Basically, one mother has discovered a Prozac prescription and the other one hasn't yet. That seems to make the difference. My house was effing SPOTLESS when the doc had me doped up on Ritalin and Wellbutrin! I had tons of energy to clean, craft, cook, exercise, love on the Hubby, fulfill my duties to the Church, etc. It was fabulous on the outside!

But every once in a while when I forgot to take my pills the cracks began to show in that facade. I was a MESS emotionally.

In 1988 I was invited out to dinner while on temporary duty at Eglin AFB, FL by a USAF Captain I was working with for a few weeks. They lived in married quarters on base with six kids in a four bedroom house, with another obviously on the way. While they did their best to make us feel welcome in their home, I and the German and Brit officer who were also invited along came away feeling more than a little sad for their situation, which was squalid. I also felt about about eating their food as it was obvious they were in over their heads financially and definately did not need more children. I hope things worked out for them in the end.