My wife just came home from the gym. She was eaves dropping on 2 mormon women who were chatting away next to her on the treadmill. One was the wife of the stake president of a So Cal stake. She was telling the other TBM women how her husband just came back from a meeting where they were instructed to meet with their bishops and tell them the church plans on cutting out 70% of its paid work force. They need to cut their expenses and their plan is to replace the work force with member volunteers. They are to decrease their vacations and spending so they will have time to work and volunteer for the church. Senior missionaries will be taking on even more jobs which normally has paid employees. Much of the manual labor and other work will be done by the missionary force. Member will be required to fill in at many positions and work for free.

They are going to cut out their paid labor force and have members and missionaries serve the lord by performing actual jobs that once were paid positions the goal is to have this in complete force by 2014.

Well I have to say Scientology beat the LDS church to the punch on this. Scientology has been doing this for a long time. So I guess Mormonism just took a lesson from a notorious and much critizied practice of Scientology.

A coworker of my ex retired recently. Immediately after he retired, he was called on a "mission" to work in LDS employment services. He isn't happy about it AT ALL, but didn't turn it down. He says he is working harder now than he did while "employed."

They can put all those people to work who are already doubling and tripling up on callings as it is. I wonder how the liquor licenses are coming along at the new mall.

Makes me sick. As if it isn't enough they are making members clean the shitty toilets for free... now they want them to do everything else too. The best part is that everyone will see they aren't doing it to save money but to "give blessings to the members through service".

From Seattle or wherever to do Janitorial Work and Gardening and Paper work at 50 East North Temple.

That's how I want to spend my retirement. At least the prospect of proselytizing in the 'mission field' sounds a little fun maybe, but getting called to the important task of...

wait a minute I'd volunteer to work in the Resignations department for free...maybe.

bwahahahahahahahahahaha

I wonder how many teachers at BYU, Idaho, Hawaii will be senior missionaries in the future.

I know of two right now!

One is a retired attorney, teaching philosophy at BYU (I wonder how he's qualified) for free.

Another is a retired jr. high school math teacher, teaching math at BYU-Hawaii, as part of his couple's mission with his wife. They are renting their apartment in an LDS,Inc-owned apartment building.

Another old friend was a very high-level attorney with his own firm when he retired. He and his wife were called to a mission in Japan, in the same city that they just recently announced the building of a new temple. There was nothing for his wife to do, so they just gave her busy-work doing PR stuff in the community.

We all know that most of the clerical jobs in the COB and the geneological library are done by missionaries. What a great service it would be for the cult to hire and pay old people who can't afford to retire. Instead, they bleed them, then coerce them into leaving whatever money is left, to the cult.

The janitor in our old ward really needed that job to support his family. The ward was upset to let him go, but, oh well. No one left the cult in protest. They fired them one at a time, gradually and kept it low profile. When they officially announce they are cutting out 70% of the work force, the workers will be long-gone fired.

I wonder how many are/were illegals.

that it was the fastest way to lose your testimonkey.

Can you imagine if you're not getting a paycheck?

God - you could just take the elevator to Greg's office and hand him your resignation directly.

I think there will be a growing number of people who become disillusioned by all this cost cutting in the face of the ultra ritzy mega mall the church is building. It is one thing to sacrifice for a cause you believe in, but there will be a point where people will start feeling used and abused.

You would think right?!

Before I deleted my FB account one of my TBM "friends" status update was that she was "so grateful to clean the church and grateful for the opportunity to serve!"

Are you freaking kidding me?!?!

Honestly, what does it take for them to realize what's going on? It's just so blatantly obvious.

for the building up of the church and the establishment of zion.

can we expect any of the "faithful" to even blink at this? this will just look like further steps to the law of consecration, something a lot of members have been looking forward to forever, i fear...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2010 05:16AM by Nick Humphrey.

TBMs will, of course, fall into line, but every time they make the cost of being a member higher, it gives members who aren't 100% sure more reason to get out.

This will really hurt on the youth and young adults. What better way to make them resent the church even more than take away their Saturdays and vacations? When I was in high school, Saturdays were extremely busy with work and school work. If I was going to go to church on Sunday and not do homework Sunday evening, Saturdays were my only option to get things done.

It will probably turn into a church-wide thing. This means even more callings taking up everybody's time. Looks like I left just in time, lol.

I have nothing against volunteer work, but it should be for something like the ASPCA or feeding starving children, or helping natural disaster victims.

All this charity should be going to REALLY help people. Not just to pull in more tithe payers to further fatten a money-hungry organization.

I think the LDS Church must be severely hurting financially. I always expected their finances to hold out long after their membership began to wane, but they probably over invested in Florida real estate. They are losing billions on the White Elephant Mall in SLC, so what are they losing on their less visible investments?

You should never rely on volunteers for your organization. They can be more trouble than they are worth. First of all, you are paying them nothing, so they don't really owe you anything. Second, they are not professionals, so they are not highly skilled. If they do a bad job, are you going to fire them? If you discipline them, they will just quit because the only thing they are getting out of it is pleasure.

I volunteered for a couple of years at a tennis tournament. One employee was extremely rude to me one day and I was so ticked off that I never went back. If they don't appreciate my free time, I have better ways of spending.

We also had people at my condo assoc. want us to fire our cleaning and landscaping staff for volunteers. I told them we would try it for a month before we fired the staff. It lasted one week, and cost us more than if they had never done anything.

With missionaries, you can abuse them because of social pressures. Young elders are under severe family and cultural pressure to serve, so you can treat them like crap and they will just give in. With seniors, they are older and more experienced. They have a lot more confidence, and if they want to go home early, no one will blame them or shame them. They also can more easily use health issues to get out of work or quit all together.

With families, you are asking a lot of people to give up their vacations and weekends to work for free. Mormons are already under huge pressures to raise a big family on limited salaries, giving up 10% of their income and huge chunks of their time to the church. Telling them to give up family vacations and Saturdays to scrub toilets after they already gave you $500 this month is pushing it.

What you are going to end up with is some shabby, run down church buildings that need renovating more often, sloppy office work, and a burn out membership more eager to quit than before. Once people make the same realization that I did, that the only power the church has over you is what you give it, they will tell the bishop to clean his own shit and start pocketing their tithing for themselves.

axeldc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the LDS Church must be severely hurting
> financially.

are they really suffering, or is this just another example of making the bottom line look nice? like when the printing department had to "get rid" of all those old book of mormons?
scroll down to "Flooding The Warehouse With The Book of Mormon":
http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2010/10/how-corporatism-has-undermined-and.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2010 08:13AM by Nick Humphrey.

a pass from cleaning toilets and the like.

The crazy thing is that the Bros. want the 10% and then the additional work on top of it.

This works out to be paying 10% of what you make all so you can work some more from the Church.

Awesome.

WHen an organization is corrupt, who knows it the most completely? The employees. Can you imagine how it feels to be "called" by inspiration to do the job that supported your family for free?

I smell whistle blowers...

Anagrammy

Wonder when GC talks will start to include messages on how Heavenly Father likes his desk arranged? How the angels are taking notes of our internet time at the office? Will the Good Samaritan be the one who steps in and does the copying when a goos elderly sister can't stand up for long?


At this point can there be any doubt that salvation is not found in mormonism? It is long dead. Please stop poking it with a stick and move along.

And to the elderly retirees- this is not covered under your temple covenants.

I once watched a documentary on BTUTV about the history of the Polynesian Cultural Center and how it was actually constructed. "Service" missionaries were called to complete the manual labor. From what I remember, they looked like 19 & 20 year old men who would have otherwise been called to proselyting missions. Instead, they were working full days laying foundations, roofing pavilions, and digging trenches. I was perplexed by their level of dedication.

I would not put it past the leaders who rely on their "temple covenant" people to ask even more. Arrogance has a way of blinding those who actively seek power. Besides you're supposed to give 100% of your time, resources, and talents to the building up of the kingdom, right? We'll see what happens. I don't think, however, that the majority of well meaning members will support something like this.

BYUTV, not BTUTV...

I thought it was deliberate:

BTU = British Thermal Unit = HOT AIR!

For one, we all have a need to feel useful. So many of our mo family members will do this so they feel like they are contributing to something 'BIG' and 'Wonderful'.

As for me, (I'm 38 and my kids are 9,10,13,16), in 15 years I hope to be spending time w/my grandbabies (helping out my kids w/babysitting if possible) and going on lots of fun vacations with my dh (preferably cruises ; )). I am a nurse and if I feel the need to volunteer, I will do so as a hospice nurse in my own community. I'm not going to go to work for some giant corporation for free and neglect my own and my family's needs.

On an ironic note, I came out to my inlaws while they were serving a fulltime 18 month mission in Russia. I think they thought they would be blessed for serving the lord instead, their dil left the church and son (my dh) is so nom that it offends them. I think they feel like they got cheated out of the blessings they deserved.

What makes me sick is the amount of tithing people donate. I see it up close and personal in my job. What a colossal waste of money.

Good grief! I can only think of one paid employee in the whole stake now. That's the professional who goes to all the wardhouses in the stake and cuts the grass.

He does a really good job and supports his family with the money. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't ask him to donate his big mower to the stake. I'll bet the lawns start looking like crap by next summer.

My parents' last mission was to Montana. My father ran the mission motor pool, a 60 hour per week job. My mother was a menial (janitorial) and secretary in the mission home. They paid a lot of money to rent a subsistence apartment (instead of living in their beautiful home in UT, which they had to pay to have maintained, etc.) and perform jobs the church could have paid someone between $9 and $14 per hour to do. My parents would have done better to hire someone to do their work for them, and stay home.

It is all downhill from here. As more people leave the church, there will be fewer members to do callings. As the few members get swamped with more callings, more people will leave. It will be a vicious cycle.

It will hit an anti-critical mass where so few people go that even less people will go because they will be unimpressed at the disorganization of the church.

tillamook Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is all downhill from here. As more people
> leave the church, there will be fewer members to
> do callings. As the few members get swamped with
> more callings, more people will leave. It will be
> a vicious cycle.
>
> It will hit an anti-critical mass where so few
> people go that even less people will go because
> they will be unimpressed at the disorganization of
> the church.

I agree. I used to get so pissed as a tbm because it seemed like just a few of us did almost all of the work. I started to resent the 'less active, non contributors'.

I go to church w/my nom dh about once a month. Mostly the church members are nice, but I get a feeling of some being burned out. They seem to resent me for not contributing to our small branch. When we have potluck, I bring 3x what 'our fair share' is. I try to help the young mothers w/their babies. But I have flatly refused to teach primary (which they have asked me several times to substitute). I tell them I will not teach what I don't believe.

I sense that these 'worker bees' are burned out and are not feeling blessed by their efforts. I am doing well, my kids are doing well, we are doing well financially (while not paying tithing) and I think it pisses the tbm's off.

This is why you can see the vitriol and hate spewed out on Facebook and places like this from TBS. We are "stealing" more worker bees away from people who are burnt out, frustrated, need "help" and can't find anyone to help out.

They lash out and pretend like less actives just "can't cut it," or are "weak" and "spiritually lazy" when really we see the truth.

Funny that you as a "mere mortal" can see into the future about this backfiring and imploding the membership whereas the 15 profits, seers, and revelators cannot.

I completely agree. I get the feeling some of the TBMs resent me for not contributing to the ward (I only show up for the fun stuff and once in a blue moon I'll attend SM with DH - who is NOM).

I've turned down THREE callings right in a row...2x they called me to nursery...NOPE...the last time they tried to call me to teach Sunbeams in Primary...oh HELL NO.

"I sense that these 'worker bees' are burned out and are not feeling blessed by their efforts. I am doing well, my kids are doing well, we are doing well financially (while not paying tithing) and I think it pisses the tbm's off."

Totally. That is my experience as well. I think it's frustrating to them that they're working their asses off with no reward while the APOSTATE is actually experiencing some joy and a few financial blessings to boot.

Suckers.

I am now grateful more than ever that I left the LDS church 18 months ago and resigned earlier this year. I agree with other posters who say that this will drive even more people to leave. I have friends who are so burned out with the multiple calling they now have. I would love it if enough members stood up to the leadership and say enough, walk off and demand that the !2 fake apostles also serve without being paid.

I'm also greateful to be a member of the Methodist church where we have paid janitroial staff and trained ministers. My church is the oldest church in the Denver area so we are involved in alot of charitable things. Most of our members are happy to volunteer and serve because they want to. Next week, we have a church wide meeting to hear and get details of our annual report and budget. This means, I know where every penny is spent.

Yeah. A church doesn't have a problem opening their books to the membership unless they are using their charitable donations for shady business deals...

in law and finance, the most important facets of religion.

If idiots want to waste their college savings, pension money, retirement savings, and life on the church, then I guess that's their choice. I'm glad I'm out.