It DID happen, it was a bit scary but amazingly exciting ( I hardly slept), and I am so glad I took the opportunity to speak the truth. What did I see in his eyes, someone asked? Nervousness and Fear. Maybe he thought I was going to shoot him, or maybe he just hated so very much just being confronted instead of worshipped. Not used to that I am sure. No, I did not ask for an autograph, haha.

I know from my Stake Pres. brother that the GA's are very very aware of these issues and as well aware that members are losing their faith every day because of what they are learning so easily on line.

And of course when one no longer believes, tithing suffers, whether or not they continue to attend for social, family, business reasons, or not. And of course, we all know $$$$ is the true bottom line. Thanks again for letting me share my most incredible afternoon!

What does your SP brother say, exactly?

And thank you for sharing the story. It makes me want to write him at his home address and question these things.

He says exactly pretty much nothing to me anymore, since I left the church. We had this conversation 3.5 years ago, and he told me the 12 are not in agreement as to whether they should let out more truth or keep hiding stuff basically. He told me to shelf my doubts, and I would get my answers in the next life. I could not do what he wanted, and when I returned home to Utah I left the church very publicly. I suppose you can tell, that would be my style. I was very angry for a long time. I lost pretty much everything that was important to me.

He told me about 3 stakes that had combined into just 2 and that the Glendale stake had closed. He lives on the West Coast, and many are falling away. He said they do not officially tell their bishops or resign, hardly ever, just quietly go inactive. It is so easy to go inactive there because none of your neighbors are mormons, like here in SLC. That is all I remember of what he said, and he speaks no more about these things, nor do I ask. Our relationship is quite strained since my leaving. It was all worth it.

I have family on the west coast who serve on bishoprics. They confirm the church is shrinking out there, but they point to fact that california is expensive and people I are just leaving the state due to high cost of living. Of course, there is also a TBM view that Kalifornia is wicked ... the righteous are fleeing Babylon.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2010 03:04PM by Major Bidamon.

I am sure the economy is causing many to leave so. Cal., but my Stake Pres. bro. told me about the growing shrinkage, consolidation of stakes, and loss of at least one stake (Glendale) 3.5, well nearly 4 years ago, April of 2007, and I believe that was before the economy really collapsed, not sure.

I have also heard that many of the missions on the east coast have been closed for several years now because NO one is joining there. Anyone know anything about east coast membership numbers or numbers of missions closed?

I know LTP very well, and have never liked him at all. He is an icon amongst my family members as he is good friends with many of them. I could tell you stories about this man that would straighten your hair, but suffice it to say, that I fully believe what you told us about your interaction with him.

sitting in a public place and having people come up and fawn over him.

Now he has to wonder if the next person is one of us instead.

I wrote letters to all the GA's homes last May. Marlin Jensen (church historian) was given a copy of my letter and he personally called me. I have hesitated to share my experience here because I too am not too hip on being called a liar.

I do admire your courage. I don't think I would be able to have the courage to do what you did. Your post made my my week!

I'm sorry if you believed I was calling you a liar. That is really a harsh term.

However, since distancing myself from the Church, I tend to disbelieve all "faith-promoting stories", even if the faith is Recovery from Mormonism.

You know it happened. Period.

I appreciated that you shared. You are a brave person. I really don't think I would have the courage to confront a bishop, let alone a GA.

And... it took courage to share a personal experience here. Thanks!

thanks for posting -- in a strange way, it gave me hope that the church can change. The men behind the curtain are not all powerful.

I'm quite sure they're really uncomfortable with lowly members speaking plainly and dismissively to them, demonstrating that some members are no longer in awe of them. I'd love to give any of them a piece of my mind.

Today a TBM colleague asked me about my church status, knowing that I have a son-in-law who is an LDS chaplain, but also plainly seeing that I don't act LDS. I told him that I felt quite comfortable with any explanation I gave him and even liked talking about it, but warned him that my words might disturb actually disturb HIM. Then I told my story. Now that I'm out, I love to talk about it and would gladly call out any church leader I had the opportunity to speak to. You da man. Thanks for sharing the story and speaking on our behalf. It makes me want to go hang out in some up-scale mall in SLC.

Actually I am a woman!

I could easily see Perry saying what he said. I was surprised he didn't have bodyguards with him though.

I'd love to hear some of Wendell's stories. I've met Perry twice, and both times he was very gregarious to the point of bombastic. I knew even then that this wasn't his real personality and he was putting on a show for some young believers. I wonder what he is really like.

Anyway, thank you for telling your story but also for saying the things you said to him. Perhaps if enough of these guys start hearing the frustration that people have in being lied to they might start objecting to the lies themselves.

I was on the late end of your original thread. Let me first thank you again, think4u, for sharing your amazing experience!

Secondly, I was wondering:

What was Perry's attitude toward all the facts you were throwing at him: Surprise? Confusion? Frustration? Disbelief? Patience? Annoyance?

Also: when you told him "...there are hundreds of thousands of people leaving the church because of the lies and the deceit..." did you feel like this registered at all? Or did Perry just look blank?

He never looked one bit surprised or confused or even annoyed. He looked nervous and afraid. I do not think he is used to angry women telling him and his buddies off for lying and ruining people's lives in the process. Like I said, maybe he was thinking I might have a gun or something like that. He looked scared!

Your experience was a definite exposure of the "man behind the curtain" in Oz.

Do we have an "Exmo History of the Church"? If so, your story should be catalogued into it, to be preserved for posterity!

Why was ol' Tom prostrate in the mall? Was he sick? Was his sphincter puckering at the size of the spacious building? Was he lost?

Poor Tom. I hope he gets better.

Just sayin'...

Ron

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2010 02:39PM by steve benson.

Thank you so much for having the courage to do this, and what a rush it must have been to walk away after an encounter like that.

This just reinforces something I've been thinking for a while, which is that all of the church hierarchy at this level must know that it's a bunch of hooey and they are actively and knowingly involved in deception. Do they actually still believe any of it or are they just too invested? I know there was another thread recently on a similar topic. It just makes me wonder how far down the structure it goes.

but they find it hard to believe what you said?......lol

I believe you. It seems to me many here still hold those old fools in high regard and can not imagine such a thing happening.

What is Wanted Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> but they find it hard to believe what you
> said?......lol


Yes, trick me once, shame on you. Trick me twice, shame on me. We are reluctant to believe anyone just on word anymore BECAUSE we were too easily fooled by Smith and cronies. Not ever again, most of us say.

> I believe you. It seems to me many here still hold
> those old fools in high regard and can not imagine
> such a thing happening.

It's not that some of us hold the old liars in higher esteem. It's that we don't know think4u from adam (or eve as the case may be). She indicated that she was very willing to give her name to Perry and express strong apostate testimony to him, but then for fear her kids will find out who she is, she remains anonymous among a more friendly group here.

I respect her right to remain unnamed, but reserve my full belief of the story till I get to know her.

Thanks for sharing your story although it does seem a bit fantastic to me. Nevertheless, I'm happy that you were able to get all that off your chest. That is a rare opportunity. I would have had asked the "what makes you a special witness of Christ?" and REALLY made him answer.

But since they already know it's all a scam, that encounter was really for you. Way to go. I hope that helps with your recovery. I know it would for me. Oh what I wouldn't give to be able to confront an apostle. Not that it would make any difference whatsoever, but just for my own healing.

I guess I don't get it. Why would one of the Traveling Wilburys even know or care about what you were talking about?

Tom Petty right?

:)

First: Good for you kicking Perry's enourmous ass. He had it coming.

Second: Wish it had been me...I wouldn't cower at all in confronting these frauds...but then he might have called security on me...being a guy and all....still would ahve been worth it. These men need to be confronted and face scrutiny.

Third: I've personally met with Perry...found him to be a pretty nice guy...a true believer...I think the real harm to the general membership is that so many members remain beleivers because they can't imagine that these men are capable of the level of deciet necessary pull this fraud off...and there in is the rub.

Forth: Why the hell do you give a rats ass what anyone here thinks of the voracity of your post. Really...isn't it enough that you had that experience (U did have it didn't u?)...do you really need anyone elses approval?

You are so right, I need no one's approval. I guess I just wanted others to share in the moment with me, it was so very liberating, and it bothers me to be called a liar when I know that the GA's are the liars.

It took every bit of honesty and courage I had to finally take a good hard look at myself in the mirror and leave the church at the age of 56, knowing how very high the price would be. It turned out to be even higher than I had imagined.

My integrity is more important to me than anything else- that is what I learned when I left, paying a huge price for it, and that is surely why I am over sensitive when questioned about my honesty.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2010 05:15PM by think4u.

One more thought Think4u:

You called Perry a liar...wouldn't it more fair to him to say that perhaps he just didn't know the details. He's an old man, he hasn't spent his life really dealing with these subjects in specifics and although I'm sure he has some basic information with respect to the subjects you brought up with him...to call him a bold faced liar...with out really knowing...is a bit of a stretch.

Wow I never thought I'd end up defending "L. Tom" but really he's just an old man rearranging the chairs on the Titanic