their architecture?

Did anyone know this also exists in architecture around SLC? In other freemasonry buildings as well?

Would you leave the church quicker if you realized that it worships Satan at the top? Even if it meant you would loose everything else material in your life? Your job, friends, possessions, money?

You need to pst some links to images to bolster your thread.

Temple Architecture:
http://mormonnomore.blogspot.com/2007/12/pentagram-mormon-work-of-art.html

Memory grove/City Creek:
http://falln-stock.deviantart.com/art/Memory-Grove-13-125318189

Like I said, use of the pentagram didn't have any Satanic ties until about 100 years after those buildings were built. It was commonly used by Christians until recently.

Most of those buildings, if not all, were built before the introduction of satanic symbolism.

Mormonism is much newer than that!

John Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baphomet


From your own article: "Baphomet (English pronunciation: /ˈbæfɵmɛt/) is an imagined pagan deity (i.e., a product of Christian folklore concerning pagans), revived in the 19th century as a figure of Satanism."

**REVIVED AS A FIGURE OF SATANISM IN THE 19TH CENTURY.**

Very doubtful the insular Mormon communities would have any contact with these fringe groups who lived in France.

The pentagram shows up in other cultures as well as a symbol. It has been part of Masonic symbolism for awhile. Most likely that's where Joseph Smith got it.

The article you posted also shows that the symbol from the Masons and Baphomet was used by writers to try to parallel and discredit Masonry by claiming that Baphomet was the devil, even though the pentagram in Masonry may have NOTHING to do with Baphomet.

That would be like saying that only if my Bishop says it's true, then I'll believe.

I think all of us here, even the ones still in the church, know that something is not right with Mormonism.

My question boils down to this...if you know in your heart that something is not right with the group you are in, are you willing to lose everything for it?

Most people would like to say that they would, but most do not. We still live in a world where evil organizations pull the strings of the willing, even when they know it's wrong.

But the symbolism I might have issues with that are different than yours.

Clearly, Joseph took a lot from Masonry.

Yes, he was also involved in the occult. I don't believe that that is "Satanism," just something interesting to learn about now.

But I can see about pointing out things to members to say, "well, it seems weird to see this here."

Yeah sorry. "Revived as a Satanic symbol,"referring to Baphomet, not the pentagram which had persistently been used by Christians. You can cherry pick all you want. You're still wrong. Not defending Mo-ism here, but truth is truth and your position is based on total ignorance on how Satanism has evolved or how/why they co-opted these symbols and deities from other cultures.

Yes, Pagans use the pentagram, but despite what Christians think Paganism and Satanism are not interchangeable beliefs, nor were they and their symbols linked to Satanism until the 20th century when Satanism arose in the US. Christians used the cross and pentagram interchangeably up until that time. There are depictions of the pentagram drawn over Christ that were proudly displayed by Christian groups. The symbol has been used by many cultures for thousands of years with only good connotation until the 20th century.

According to your own article Baphomet was not an evil deity until this French cult 'revived' him as a symbol of evil AFTER Mormonism started as an "attempt to discredit freemasonry by linking them with Templar Masons." (your article)

Did you even read your own article?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2011 05:22PM by vhainya.

Based on recent government statistics The Church Of Jons (commonly known as Jonites) is the fastest growing denomination in the Western world.

This is largely attributable to the birth rate of Jons within Jonite families however the Church does boast a number of converts each year.

Following a recent shism two breakaway groups have gained support - The Fundamental Church of John and the Reformed Church of Jonny - have formed and they claim to follow the original Pigamist doctrine of more than one dessert for each dinner.

The original and by far most popular Jonite Church doesn't yet have any scriptures to speak of, but have published one stated belief:

Article of Faith
1. We're not here for a long time, we're here for a good time

We have too many of those already.

How about if they became Jons for (Raptor) Jesus?? Would that pacify you? :)

Time to get more Ho's!

Sorry...couldn't resist...

Mormonism is like Freemasonry which both honor Baphomet.

Ole' Beezlebub is as imaginary as Juheezus so why fret?

The symbols on the Mormon Temples and on buildings in SLC were not built as "satanic" symbols.... There are enough legitimate concerns with mormonisim without your imagined ones.

Your messages read like some wacko fundamentalist christian who wants to "save the mormons".

As a Mormon I can assure you that I was WELL AWARE of the symbols on the temple and on various buildings around SLC. I was also aware of many masonic symbols.. including that of the eastern star. The inclusion of these symbols never lead me to suspect even for one second that mormons or masons were worshipping satan.

Wake the f up!

and has nothing to do with the Christian deity called "Satan"

obvious star in the concrete of Memory Grove, City Creek.

Who in their right mind, in the church state of Utah, would allow a Baphomet star to be built there in the concrete?

Why?

I actually saw the lady putting that in, summer 2009. She said she was a wiccan.

What is the evil relationship between Mormons and Wiccans? Anyone awake here?

The parallels between Wicca and Mormonism are many and run to the core of the traditions, I think.As I said, Andy and I only started to work this out in a rigorous way as of last summer.That's when we read SPIRAL DANCE. You see, we are kind of novices when it comes to Wicca.By the way, do you have any recommended readings for wet behind the ears witches? The Nauvoo period of the LDS Church is very instructive. Joseph started up small working groups for the purpose of spreading the temple rites.These were powerful egalitarian groups that enjoyed marvelous blessings, men and women alike. Joseph ruled the Church from within these bodies for a time. After his death, the all male quorums reasserted their ruling power.That was the real beginning of authoritarian, corporate leadership in the Church. Joseph's working groups were called "anointed quorums".It is now clear that these groups bore all of the earmarks of a modern witch coven. I have some new data on the Joseph Smith prayer circle groups that I am going to go ahead and discuss, although I am still trying to confirm the source.It seems that the homes of Nauvoo did NOT face east. Six or so houses faced inward towards a common area that was shared by all. Members of these households comprised a prayer circle group. They shared a spiritual and practical intimacy that can only be compared to the extended family of old.On the other hand, it is now clear that these groups were not hierarchical structures that were ruled from the top down. They were egalitarian centers of caring.They shared insights and chores.They built each other’s homes.Each one's talents benefitted the whole group.Their children played together. These groups did their thing outside of the temple precincts, of course. We still refer to the Brethren as "The Lord's Anointed", although this term is appropriate for anyone who has been through the temple ceremony.Women were excluded from prayer circle groups very early. Legitimate prayer circle groups were extant in the Church until May 3, 1978, when they were banned in a letter from the First Presidency.Today, prayer circle rites are only conducted within the temple precincts.The current practice is a slight shadow of what it was, having been reduced to a mere ritual exercise in the company of strangers. The prayer circle groups that were instituted by Joseph in Nauvoo were not unlike a modern coven in practice.When first group was instituted they were called "the anointed quorum."After 1843 the Prophet consulted the Twelve less and governed the Church from within this quorum.

Wiccans and Mormons are pretty much diametrically opposed.

Pentagrams do not come from Wicca either; they are from ceremonial magick.

They are probably using it because it also has Masonic heritage.
Even the US Capitol and many government buildings in Washington DC include pentagrams and ALL sorts of astrological symbols.

While you're at it, look at a Sheriff's badge or the side of a patrol car... The five-pointed star with the single point up has always been used as a good symbol.

The American flag has 50 of them last time I checked.

Fuck me Jesus. This guy has been reading too much Dan Brown.

it is you who do not understand.
The points of the pentagram symbolize the 4 elements plus Spirit.
Earth, Air, Fire, Water, Spirit.
The pentagram is considered positive when the "Spirit" point is at the top -- meaning Spirit rules over the material world. The pentagram is considered INVERTED (and often negative) when the "spirit" point is beneath (subjugated) to the material points.

The Pentagram, which in Gnostic schools is called the Blazing Star, is the sign of intellectual omnipotence and autocracy. It is the Star of the Magi; it is the sign of the Word made flesh; and, according to the direction of its points, this absolute magical symbol represents order or confusion, the Divine Lamb of Ormuz and St. John, or the accursed goat of Mendes. It is initiation or profanation; it is Lucifer or Vesper, the star of morning or evening. It is Mary or Lilith, victory or death, day or night. The Pentagram with two points in the ascendant represents Satan as the goat of the Sabbath; when one point is in the ascendant, it is the sign of the Saviour. By placing it in such a manner that two of its points are in the ascendant and one is below, we may see the horns, ears and beard of the hierarchic Goat of Mendes, when it becomes the sign of infernal evocations.

Have you ever wondered why so many Mormons do so well in Government?

Jews do well in Law?
Let me guess... might it be SATAN???

Little or no truth to be found here...moving on. Bye and good luck!

in the ass on your way out, and please stay away from firearms.

Could this guy be Badger John, I wonder? Seems like the sort of evangelical pap he would spew our way...

Little to no truth= These people won't buy into the shit I am feeding them, (none of which I can back up) so I am gonna persist in my beliefs and try to peddle them one someone else. Most people are very familiar with your tactics on this board. Lastly, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you are gonna claim that there is some sort of conspiracy involving Mormons, wiccans, Freemasons, and the federal government you better have some dang good evidence. "OMG GUYS! Upside down stars!" Is not gonna convince anyone. So either do some decent research and get some solid facts, or shut the hell up.

Maybe Mormons are RUSH fans??? http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/downloads/wallpaper/2112back.jpg