One recurring theme I read on RFM is a person comes out of the closet regarding lack of belief in mormonism and the TBM family member; wife, mother, father, sibling, whatever, freaks out over the loss of their "eternal family" or the concern that "Satan has control over" the non-believer. And I wonder, what do you say to such a person? I'm reminded of my mentally ill son's paranoid delusions. Mental health professionals suggest the best way to talk to a delusional person is not to argue the delusion but to show understanding for how that delusion makes them feel.

For instance, your loved one says "You're being controlled by Satan." You might say, "I understand you're afraid, but I'm right here, the same person I've always been and I love you."

Can you see your TBM in this question "What Do You Say to Someone Who is Delusional" and the subsequent answer by a Clinical Psychologist::


http://counsellingresource.com/ask-the-psychologist/2007/10/23/paranoid-delusions/

I guess I'd say there's a difference between an internal psychological delusion and an external one.
The mentally ill version just comes on its own.
The external/rational/logical delusion is the result of being decieved either deliberately or by culture. No one's necessarily lying to the guy who mutters bizzare conspiracy theories on the bus. His neuropsychiatric function is impaired physiologically. But a normal person can be deceived without any abnormality in their neurophysiology.
Mormon's aren't delusional in the neuropsychiatric sense (unless they are), but they're deceived.

1. I'm not saying TBM's are mentally ill, so a discussion about neuro science isn't necessary.

2. To say that they are decieved makes it sound like they have no culpability in the matter. I think ultimately we are responsible for what we believe. Don't you?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2011 12:15PM by wine country girl.

I'd say it begins as deception, or programming if you are BIC, but eventually the pathology described in your link develops (I remember!) and becomes very hard-coded and very hard to penetrate. I would definitely characterize this process as victimization. The escape routes and handholds out of the Morg are few and difficult to recognize. I had to literally sail my boat (like Jim Carrey) right up to the wall and knock on it before I could see that there was something else going on. Classic PD folks are usually isolated in their claims (such as the dood with the Moses DNA in the link).

I think the psychologist's advice is for the clinically delusional and would just be patronizing to a TBM.
To your example, "you're being controlled by satan", I'd be more apt to ask "why do you think that?" And have an argument. So yes, I do think they're culpable, and I'm not OK with just letting them think I'm possessed by satan without objecting to it.

I agree with your original post, especially because my elderly mom becomes more "out there" with regards to Mormonism with each passing year. However, while I agree that we are ultimately responsible for what we believe, we base our beliefs on our best information filtered through our life experiences. If we are being lied to and filtering it through a Mormon lens, because that is all we know, Then our beliefs might be skewed without our even realizing it or having the skills to make better decision or create a better reality for ourselves.

Case in point - I have a friend who trains people for marathons and has a side business as a weight-loss counselor. She has a MA in nutrition, as well as a BA in some sort of sport physiology so her consultations are very information-based: calories, nutrition, exercise etc. And when her clients have better information they make better decisions and lose weight. Before that, they were probably doing the best they could with what they knew. Either way, they were ultimately responsible for what they put in their mouths, yes, but without the proper knowledge, they made poor decisions. The main difference between this and Mormons is most people know when they need to lose weight and if not, are told by doctors, family, friends or pant size. Mormons usually don't know they are delusional and need a belief-diet and often people don't tell them, not wanting to alienate or offend.

IMO

The common speech the TBM has is that the TBM spouse say because we realized the church is not true that we are being powered by Satan. I based my decisions on logic.

On topic ish. I heard my father talking about sites like this and anti-mormon literature. And I swear, you will never hear the words: Satan and devil so much in a grown man's conversation. It was truly annoying. Every *little* thing a person does remotely bad is linked to satan or the devil *making* them or *influencing* them. Uhh no. People just like to make their own decisions. Ugh.