Anyone else feel that the police, courts, etc. disdriminate against those who are not mormons, living in Utah....Am I paranoid or is your not wearing garments, your ass is grass..

I work overnight, so the Mormon clique is small and overpowered by apostates and atheists. It truly does not concern me. I think the total garment-wearing number of people is 3 or so out of 30.

No I have lived in Utah for most of my years. 15 of those years inactive without Gs on. I have never had any problems at all. In fact in the neighborhood I live in, we don't even have any active members. In Utah county you might get that snooty treatment, but anywhere else its normal like the rest of the country.

DH used to, family members do, and I did hard time in heavily Morg parts of Az . . . the thought of living in Utah scares the crap out of me. It's not just the police or courts or political machines. It's the thought of having to live day to day with the emotional fall out of dealing with the Mormon mindset that makes me prefer to be as far away as possible!

I've lived in Utah for 31 years this go around (not counting back when I was a newlywed in college). 15 of those years were when I was active and thought it was just peachy to live around so many mormons. The reason I stayed after I left the church was because my job and my family were here.

I now work downtown SLC. Half of our office is UBER TBM and the rest of us are non mormons or exmormons. There is a lot of tension over religion in our office. Our HR dept has warned some of the more zealous believers that they violate employment laws when asking inappropriate questions, pushing religion and so forth, but the devouts just think it doesn't apply to them. One guy says when he goes into meetings with the other guys, he calls it "church" meeting because it always goes off into that direction. He hates it.

Now that I'm with my fiance (never mo) and he has his children here from a previous marriage, I am sticking around in Utah. I would love to move when I retire. I hate Utah politics and the Chris Butters/Carl Wimmers/Jason Chaffetz type of politicians who think Utah is somehow above the law in certain areas. UUUUG

I've lived in Utah for 15 years. I'm not afraid, but I get tired of the cultural differences. The town I'm in is about half Mormon, the other half are what keeps me here. I may be leaving soon anyway, though, just tired of the differences. Tired of seeing women with tons of little kids and on welfare. Tired of the judgmental and haughty better than you outlooks. Tired of being told to watch my back when dealing with Mos.

I HATE Utah politics and many of the laws here are regressive. I would never advise anyone to move here. I have friends who moved to SLC for a job and had their kids there and are now stuck there, even though retired, because their kid are all there and they want to be around them. They would leave in a second otherwise.

Utah has some beautiful scenery, but beware trying to live here unless you're wealthy and can stay out of the fray. And leave when you want.

I had some friends come visit and they got pulled over by the state troopers because they had Hawaii license plates, they weren't even speeding. They're from Hawaii, where pakalolo (weed) isn't hardly illegal, and they had one joint with them (stupid, I know). They had to pay a fine of $2000 or go straight to jail, I mean, they had to pay it right then to the trooper. Corruption. They will never be back. I've seen a number of examples of troopers having someone pulled over by the freeway and they were totally going through their car, everything laying by the road. Usually Hispanics or hippy looking kids. If you come here, you'd better be pretty careful if you use anything (I don't but I sure wouldn't if I did). The place seems to have a heavy police presence.

OTOH, some of the nicest people I've ever met live here. They're usually not from Utah.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2011 12:48PM by lostinutah.

I still look mormon--and I wear clothes that don't give away that I don't wear garments, but not on purpose. I'd dress conservatively whether or not I had garments on or not--just my preference, and my ex, though gay, looks VERY MORMON.

So . . . we have a son who was goth in school and still dresses all in black--definitely doesn't look mormon, etc. My sister has a boyfriend who has REALLY long gray hair, looks like a biker (rides a Harley)--etc. Both of them have been treated very poorly.

Two weeks ago, my son ran out of gas on a country road in Cache Valley. It was 30 minutes from where I live. When I got there with gas--this was EARLY MORNING--a cop showed up right after we put gas in his car. I talked to the cop--told him we would be gone soon and then I headed down the road to turn around. The cop started harassing my son and wouldn't quit. He wouldn't let him remove anything from the car. He wanted to impound the car. He told my son that I had left. I just was looking for a place to legally turn around as I don't trust cops. I came back, called my ex, who sent a coworker out to tow the car. Once this coworker MALE showed up--the cop laid off. He gave me some lecture about "blocking the road" (no shoulder). THEN as we were pulling off, he SIGNALED ME TO STOP ME--and stopped in the middle of the road to give me my son's license--blocking the entire road. The cops here not only treat anyone not mormon bad here--but WOMEN.

THEN--my sister's boyfriend--he went to buy a lottery ticket in Franklin, Idaho on a Sunday. The guy in the store called the cops. The cop checked 5 nearby states to make sure he didn't have a warrant out for his arrest.

You bet they profile around here. You HAVE TO STAY off their radar. I didn't believe it until it started happening to people I know.

P.S. My TBM daughter is the first one to get out of here. SHE HATES UTAH and hates Utah mormons (hasn't put 2 and 2 together yet). I'm the next--moving to Colorado. My ex and son plan on moving to CA.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2011 12:53PM by cl2.

Also moving back to Colorado, my home state. Contact me if you want to talk.

I lived there for eight years and loved every minute of it.

It's not that bad here for the most part, but there are some who say you can trust them because they are mormon. Some of the biggest hypocrits I ever met.

I lived in SLC age 3-19.
Mormonism is an ever-present theme, but it is restrained by secular values, and there are few substantial inhibitions of your freedom that could be blamed on it.
For example Utah's liquor laws are infamous, but they share the same historical roots in Prohibition as even more ridiculous and longlived laws in the South.
At the end of the day, you can get all the alcohol you can drink. Even on Sunday.
And, Utah is not homogenously populated Mormonwise. Greater SLC is less than 1/2. Parts of SLC like Sugarhouse are less than that, with multigenerational communities of nevermos.
Of course, I'm assuming that the trend of decreasing Mormonism has held in the 20 years since I moved. Maybe not. A revival is certainly possible.
There's a large counter-culture to Mormonism in Utah, which I admit can me annoying in itself. You may be asked by both Mo and NonMo if you're Mo. Both may be asking sincerely to estimate your social sensitivities, for example a nonMo asked me once because he was about to offer me a beer. He should have just offered me the beer without asking, and left it to me, but it's a ubiquitous question there.
There's a silent majority of both Mo's and nonMo's who are just tired of the question. They both dislike being stereotyped. Utah Mo's get stereotyped by both nonMo's and non-Utah-Mo's. Gets tiring that almost EVERYONE who comes to Utah has you "figured out" already, Mo and nonMo alike.
when I was there, I enjoyed the promiscuity of some the locals, nightlife, drinking, skiing, concerts, etc.
Brigham prophesied that SLC would become a wicked city in the last days...make it happen!

Yes.

I grew up in Utah. Moved to So. Cal. at 19. Spent 12 years there, then back here for another 15, Kentucky for 5, small town Idaho for 3 and am now back in Utah.

I prefer Utah. Mo's don't bother me at all here, oddly. Now small town Idaho? Another story for another thread.

Hence all the moves...I liked Ky. but I don't regret moving home.

Don't you mean fast horses and good-lookin' women? I hope so...

Spent my whole life in or near Utah....There is a demographic shift and a trend toward inactivity making Utah less Mormon than before. But some counties in Utah and Idaho have the highest birth rate in the nation.
Walking around Sugar House where my son lives, feels almost normal. Salt Lake county voted 49% for Obama in the 2008 elections and 49% for McCain. Inner city blight (non-mormons) must be a real worry for the breathern- terrible to feel out numbered in your own city. But they can't pick up the COB and move head quaters to Happy Valley (Utah county) so instead invest in super malls and encourage fix up clean up programs.
Still everyone lives in the shadow of the temple to some extent, on the other hand given the trends, living in Utah and being a fly on the wall watching cities like St. George turn gentile is kind of cool.
http://www.city-data.com/ this city data link gives all kinds of demographic stuff.

to bring the numbers back to what they want in SLC. Less liberal, young morMon families.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2011 03:02PM by mav.

I've lived in Utah most my life. Outside of the politics and Utah County, everything is good. Enough of us sinners here to make it tolerable.

When my boss and boss's boss make comments about how they don't think athiests can be moral, or my coworkers make comments of how gay people have no right to live, I keep quiet. I wear a white undershirt to pretend like I have garments on. Basically, I'm just waiting to get my degree, then I'm out of here.

Guess they learned their lesson.

Timothy

I think the general atmosphere there is bad and the pollution in the air is terrible. I have asthma and it was bad for me living in that inversion during the winter. Also, I hated the attitude of the people, the way they looked down on you and shoved their religion down your throat. I don't think it's mentally healthy to live in that kind of mind-warp/fantasy land. But I only lived in Taylorsville and Bountiful and Provo. I know someone who lives in Sugar House too and they say it's hardly Mormon at all. And they ARE Mormon. I went to Sacrament meeting once when I was visiting her and there was a guy with long hair passing the sacrament which would never have happened in any of the wards I lived in in Utah. But it was a pretty empty Sac Meeting too.

So while I know and admire non-Mos that live in Utah happily, for me it's too much of a mindfreak and frankly, I need fresher air to breathe.

not afraid, just not inclined...

Being afraid to live in Utah implies that the church has some kind of power over me. It does not.

dressclothes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Being afraid to live in Utah implies that the
> church has some kind of power over me. It does
> not.

But it does have power of people that could be in power over you.

Judges, cops, bosses, neighborhood associations, etc.

Yes, the police, especially in Provo, profile counter culture types: Here's my example:

I lived off of Freedom near the train tracks. I took a Sunday off work due to an awesome show by some local musicians. I woke up and went to the 7-11 to pick up some smokes and was talking with a friend on my cell. I didn't want to talk in the store so I sat on the grass to wrap up my conversation. 30 seconds later, two cops came up to me and started hasseling me and firing questions- "What are you doing here? Where do you live? We've never seen ypou around here before? Where's your ID?"

Pissed, I shot back, "The reason you don't see me here is because I usually work in the mornings. I come here almost everyday to get smokes." The other cop was writing down my address and I asked, "What do you need that information for? I haven't done anything illegal." He replied that because of the Patriot Act, cops have to write down the information of every person they interrogate.

Many of my friends are hasseled by the fuzz just for walking down the street in that area. It's ridiculous. I was wearing a pair of jeans, a Catwoman shirt, and my nosering and I have no record in any state.

same thing used to happen to me in 1966-67, actually thruout the sixties and seventies. There was a cop shop not far from my house, and I couldn't walk a block w/o getting stopped for a "FI", (field interrogation), by some junior officer who didn't live in our neighborhood.

Just cuz I looked different (from them)...

Illegal car searches too, illegal arrests. Tickets for nothing. So I left CA, and got the same treatment on Maui.

I guess my hair was illegal?

Cops, doncha just luv it?

I really like visiting Utah but living there no way. I'm not afraid because it sounds a lot like the part of Colorado I'm in. So why bother moving?

Lived in Salt Lake for over 30 years now. Left the church nearly 4 yrs. ago. NO fear. The fact is my new neighbors somehow know I am apostate, and they fear me. I can feel it. But do not ever expect them to reach out or help you in any way. They avoid apostates like the plague.

Yeah, they're probably afraid they'll get apostate cancer.

only MEN can get that ...silly!! :)

Yeah, but the women suffer right alongside them. LOL

I guess I'll add one experience. I did a project with the Utah tourism office (a book). It was my own nickel, but they gave me input and agreed to sell it in their stores, esp. the one on the hill there in SLC. I put 7k into it and worked very closely with them.

After I had produced and printed it, they refused to sell it, they had realized I wasn't a Mo. It was a total breach of contract, but I knew it would be hopeless to sue in SLC. I ended up selling it in other outlets, but it was the first time in my life (and only time so far) that I've had such a thing happen. Never again will I work with Mos.

I work very closely with several law enforcement agencies in the state. On a separate tangent I know most of the very top politicians in the state having them either as relatives or former classmates. Its no big secret that I'm not a "believer". And I can say that as far as I can tell they've never been prejudiced against me for not being a "believer". But I don't rub it in their face. And I'm posting as "anon" for this because I still do fear that it would piss 'em off if they saw me on RfM too much.

Provided you don't have to work with Mormons!
Provided you don't have to do business with Mormons!

When I was still on sick leave, as I was recovering, I took a highly coveted temporary part-time job in a predominantly Mormon office, replacing someone who had a nervous breakdown. It was by far the worst job I've ever had! The people there were so gossipy and back-stabbing, that the whole tone of the office was oppressive. I had to give myself a huge pep-talk walking up those steps three mornings a week, "Just four hours and I can go home. Just hang in there until after January." Almost every day, someone would be crying in the women's bathroom. My supervisor-from-Hell couldn't keep assistants. They wouldn't even bother to quit--they just wouldn't show up, or just vanish at lunchtime and never return. The actual work was fine. I enjoyed working with the students, which saved my sanity. When I would return from a student meeting, my supervisor would say in a nasty tone, "Why are you smiling." She thought I was after her job--AS IF I wanted to be there more than those few months. Many friends of mine have had similar experiences at their work. Utah is a right-to-hire state, and people were always getting fired, because someone's relative wanted the job.

Utah is great for retired people, students, ski-bums, or people who have their own business and don't have to work with Mormons. I hear the PTA is as Mormon-dominated, snobby and back-stabbing as the offices. I would not want to dabble into politics in Utah, either.

I'm fine because I work for myself in my dream job, and I do the hiring and firing, and our office has no Mormons in it. (I could get in trouble, but I'm anon) Most of our major contacts are outside of Utah (I get to travel), and with the ones in Utah, I observe my own strict office rule of no religion and no politics and no slander, so I purposely don't know what religion they are.

When I'm not working, I stay up in the mountains, and hang out in Park City as much as possible. When I left the cult, I was shunned by all our Mormon neighbors, and that almost crushed me. Fortunately I have great non-and ex-Mormon relatives and friends, and I've been concentrating more on them. I have a hard time making NEW friends in Utah. If someone wants a great social life, nice neighbors, or friendly schools for their children--Utah is not the place.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2011 03:17AM by forestpal.

Been out of the church for ten years now. I'm surrounded by Mo's at work but have never been approached. Partly it has to do with my irreverence towards religion, any religion. Word has gotten out long ago not to waste time talking to me.

For me Utah is a pretty good place to live being non-LDS. I just mind my own business and have a blast doing what I want to do.

ST

I think it's mormons are are more afraid of leaving utah than us being afraid to live there. So many people i used to go to church don't talk to me anymore because i don't believe. And the only thing I like about my job in retail is most everybody who works there is not tbm. It's so nice not having mormons trying to convert everybody who works there.

I've noticed that mormons receive better service in banks and other businesses, so I'd think the same would be true in an emergency situation. Mormon doctors and medical people would favor their own if they had to make a choice.

No,,have lived and retired here. Years ago it was very clannish and discrimation was open and everywhere. Over the years more non mormon influnces have moved in. Have had my run in with the mormons,,but overall I like it here. I am looking on selling out and moving to another state to be near family.

Just recall that most secularists think mormons are strange; while all major Christian churches do not accept the LDS as "christians", and see them as a cult. Utah is a foreign nation.

Ramen!

My dad, as a deacon in a non-Mo church, was a rep. to a consortium of Christian churches in Colorado. The Mos really stirred things up by asking to join. They were told no, you're a cult, not a real Christian church, which really pissed them off. But the consortium stood its ground.

Not at all. I'm openly gay, an exmormon, and work for the U.S. Army. I'm out at work. My boyfriend and I bought a house together in South Ogden. And I've had no problems.

But I agree that Utah is a strange place to live. My boyfriend and I both have good jobs, and enjoy all the outdoor opportunities in Utah. But we wouldn't be opposed to moving elsewhere if the opportunity arose.

I'm currently spending 6 months in Washington DC working at the Pentagon. I was out doing a bunch of shopping yesterday, getting settled in. And I was surprised how polite and friendly people are here. Since this is a large, multi-racial metropolitan area I was expecting the opposite. But strangers are so much nicer here than the are in Utah!