10And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man

So if "Hot drinks" are bad, then why do they serve hot chocoolate?

Anyone every been disciplines for having coffee or using coffee?

I was taught that "hot drinks" mean drinks with caffeine. It has nothing to do with the temperature of the the drink.

But then Coke and Mountain Dew are bad! Oh, but they aren't... Okay, so it's hot drinks - no, it's caffeine! Okay, so decaf coffee is okay? No, because it's a hot drink! Oh, so hot cocoa is not okay? No, it's fine because it doesn't have caffeine. So decaf iced coffee is okay, along with decaf iced tea? No, because it's coffee and tea, you have to avoid the appearance of evil!! Well then why is Coke and Mountain Dew okay...? I want to bare my testimony... blah blah blah

/rant

No, I have not been chastised.

brett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was taught that "hot drinks" mean drinks with
> caffeine. It has nothing to do with the
> temperature of the the drink.


Coke ingredients: High fructose corn syrup, sugar, hot drinks, sodium benzoate, etc.

How can "hot drinks" mean caffiene?

It's not about logic, it's about blind obedience

The coffee ant tea prohibitions are amont the stupidest found in a religion. I have always been surprised that thier prohibition doesn't drive more investigators away than it already does. It's like going to join a church and finding out that you must give up the use of oat meal and rice porridge to be in full favor and good standing. A place where avoiding malto-meal and grits is avoiding the appearance of evil but they are still technically alright because the cautioning against eating hot cerial was aimed at oat meal and rice porridge.

I recieved some dicapline for WOW violations, including coffee use. But it was just formal probation and it was part of a package deal that covered my lack of church activity and my posession of healthy young male sexuality, so technically it wasn't just for the coffee.

Things have changed - the current CHI Book 1 prohibits any punitive measures for WOW violations. Members are not even to be called in for an interview for WOW violations.

Is that true?

If yes, that's actually quite a big deal.

Jon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is that true?
>
> If yes, that's actually quite a big deal.

as far as I can see in CHI 1 (6.7.1) it only says that 'a church disciplinary council' should not be called for WoW violations.'

I cant see where it says it "prohibits any punitive measures"

Thanks for clarifying that.

What discipline can be applied to a member without convening a disciplinary council?

luckychucky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The coffee ant tea prohibitions are amont the
> stupidest found in a religion. I have always been
> surprised that thier prohibition doesn't drive
> more investigators away than it already does. It's
> like going to join a church and finding out that
> you must give up the use of oat meal and rice
> porridge to be in full favor and good standing. A
> place where avoiding malto-meal and grits is
> avoiding the appearance of evil but they are still
> technically alright because the cautioning against
> eating hot cerial was aimed at oat meal and rice
> porridge.
>

That is so damn funny I almost fell on the floor! I love that! You rock.

"It's like going to join a church and finding out that you must give up the use of oat meal and rice porridge to be in full favor and good atanding"

Funniest line I've read all day. I'm going to use that myself at some point in the future.

Mrs Truthseeker said I can cultivate wholesome herb if IL legalizes it.

If you read the WoW using your left brain there is very little in it that is actually true. I try to use logic and modern medicine/science with my family when discussing it but they won't have any of that.

To them it is no longer about health, it is about obedience.

Once again, the joke is on them and they don't know it.

And if I drink that same beverage at 1 degree below the "hot" point then I am OK ?

I would be willing to bet large sums of money, if I had large sums of money, that none of the 14.3 members of TSCC obeys verse 13 - eating animal flesh "...only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.". Unless, of course, they're vegetarians.

I once attended a singles ward where the EQ had an annual event they called "meat fest". We would have a variety of service projects in the morning followed by a lunch of all kinds of meat. I'm pretty sure it was a spring time event, not during the winter.

I used to feel the same. Chances are it applies to the majority but I knew a TBM family of five (at the time) that averaged less than a package of burger every couple of weeks and ate primarily fruits and vegies. The daughter even thought the amount of meat they ate could be excessive. They took the D&C version of the WOW to heart. Of course I recognize they are a big exception.

This seems like a constant point of debate in the church. Green tea is probably on of the best things for you while dining.

My issue is if Section 89 of the D&C was written, then why isn't so-called revelation being given to clarify when this means?

The church teaches that coffee, tea, tobacco, alcohol and harmful drug are against the W of W. Common sense seems to go out the window.

My interpretation of the W of W is just that. It is the W of W, and all herb should be used with judgement and skill.

The single largest health issue now facing the US is morbid obesity, not alcohol and caffeine or even cigarettes. If God was really concerned that people walk and not be weary, run and not faint, then perhaps He should have revealed to his prophet back in the 1940s that the Saints avoid the consequences of the development of overly processed packaged meals, starchy and fat riddled fast foods, high fructose corn syrup, and out of control portion control.

I feel the spirit more watching the Biggest Loser than I ever felt in conference talks about the WoW.

How do you tell a mormon from a non-mormon?


...you take the temperature of their caffiene.

On the subject of the word of wisdom joseph smith said:

"I understand that some of the people are excusing themselves in using tea and coffee, because the Lord only said 'hot drinks' in the revelation of the Word of Wisdom. Tea and coffee are what the Lord meant when he said 'hot drinks.'(Johnson, J. H., A Voice from the Mountains, p. 12)

I was always taught that WOW was meant to be used a a measure of one's obedieince; not just a health code to life by. I think most members understand that and why it is a temple recommend question.