I have been posting on this forum for the past 4 days. To be honest, I have a very dark spirit lately. I'm miserable. I feel like I'm on my way out of the church and soon to be on the outside looking in. Does anyone else feel that way? Is this forum destroying any loyalty to the church you have? I ask for honest answers only please.

I would like to continue this discussion if it is okay.

I do believe that is the true purpose of RfM.

Others have continued it on the thread sophia started--I replied on there.

You want opinion-affirming agreements with your piddling little issues.

If you wanted honest answers you wouldn't be such a quisling about your little brother and trying to blame the disruption of your family on his sexual orientation. If you were any sort of upright you'd be more concerned about his welfare as a human being than you are about sticking to that stupid hateful anti-gay rhetoric you've been babbling all over this board this morning.

You think you can pick and choose between what fascist Mormons want and what will make you smugly comfortable in your life without having to work at any of it. People like you are called Cafeteria Mormons: "I'll have the Funeral Potatoes but hold the Green Jell-O Surprise." You may express a desire to step outside the doorway of Mormonism, but you really want is one foot in the foyer and one foot on the step.

The least you could do in that case is start learning to be honest with yourself. You certainly aren't fooling me or others here.

I'm not the one who has abandoned my brother. I don't approve of his lifestyle, but I still talk to him and we hang out.

You might as well blame him for destroying your family for being left handed or blue eyed. Your family's conditional "love" is the perversion, not your brother's sexual orientation.

edmarc Wrote:
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> I'm not the one who has abandoned my brother. I
> don't approve of his lifestyle, but I still talk
> to him and we hang out.

Do people APPROVE of your lifestyle? called MORMONISM? How does it make you feel when others look at you and talk to you in disregard? How does it feel when you're shunned for something you say, do and believe? Think about it. Love is a very powerful word if used in the RIGHT context and manner. You can not fully Love someone unconditionally when you sit there and say, I Love you, but I hate/disagree with what you choose to do with your life. They can not coexist together. Plain and simple.

Would you be willing to have his boyfriend over to your home for family events? Would you be best man at his wedding? Would you be happy for him on his wedding day? Would you accept his new husband as a member of your family?

Once married, would you happily allow him and his husband to sleep in the same room if they visited overnight?

Would you be willing to place the blame for breaking up the family where it really belongs, on those that are refusing to accept him as he is?

This board has been very beneficial to me because the truth of the matter is this- The church isn't really true.

That is a very hard thing to accept. It's much much easier to prove than it is to accept the ramifications of that knowledge- will my family leave me? Will Heavenly Father curse me? Will my soul be banished to outer darkness? Will I ever have faith again, or will I ever have integrity again, or what about a dozen other common concerns? What will happen to my Eternal Family?

It is very frightening. But just like finding out that a spouse is cheating on you, those dark feelings do not mean that they are faithful and you are wrong- it simply means that you feel awful for this deepest betrayal and fear of the future without the one you love.

I was surprised at just HOW MANY people are on this journey with me. Some have gone this way before and return to help. Others were at the same place that I was and are arriving at around the same time as me and you. Some are just beginning their journey and having been there, I recognize so many of those same issues and fears and trends that I displayed. And there have been literally dozens of new posters in the last year who come here looking for support, information and a safe place to vent, many of them have been church leaders.

Do not be afraid, edmarc. If Heavenly Father is a God of truth then you do not need to fear discovering the truth and leaving falsehood behind.

Remember- truth loves the light and only error needs to be hidden, rationalized or explained away.

Thank Jo,

Another thing that makes me question is why the interest in our ancestory? The LDS church is very big on Geneology. Why? Also, how do you differenciate when you have feelings of discernment about some truths? I can't honestly belive the church is completely false, but I'm not convinced it is true either? why would there be about 6 flavors of mormonism right now?

There is a difference between those things you cannot prove are true and those things that you can prove are not true.

I cannot prove that there is a God, but I can prove using the churches own writings, things that it claims are not true.

I cannot prove that there is no God, but I can prove that there was never any mention of Peter James and John until several years after the fact, and I can prove that the revelations have been changed between the 1833 Book of Commandments and the D&C and I CAN prove that D&C 122 is a fabrication instead of a revelation to Joseph.

I cannot prove that the Spirit did not work through Joseph Smith, but by his own words I can prove that he made a lot of stuff up.

I suppose he should lick the soles of your boots out of gratitude that you are so willing to be a hypocrite and show him some false love. Does it make you feel better to despise him in person? Do you only feel smug and superior when you're hanging out with him, or only later, when you've reflected on how well you've practiced your fine Christian charity?

Please define how a "gay lifestyle" differs from that of your own. Use specific terminology.

False love? Not even.

I just don't aprove of his lifestyle.

edmarc Wrote:
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> False love? Not even.
>
> I just don't aprove of his lifestyle.

I don't approve of yours.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2011 02:17PM by Strykary.

Edmarc is a practicing mormon who says he knows it ain't so.

That's the lowest lifestyle I know of.

Timothy

There is some deep-seated hatred going on in Mr. edmarc, and he's doing his best to slather it with Artificial Love® (Now in Spray-cans!).

Edmarc,

The solitary journey is a difficult journey, and feeling alone and even lost is part of it. You are in the midst of changing the maps that have guided your life. Ultimately the peace you look for will only be found when you let go of the dogma that has controlled you thus far. When you realize there are very few absolutes, that others may think differently and act differently than you, and when you discover that differences are not only acceptable, but that they are the very essence of individuality and growth, then you will be well down the path.

It is there, on the path that leads to non judgmental acceptance, a healthy curiosity about others and their philosophies, intrigue rather than fear of differences and the unknown; that you will find fellow travelers at your side, supporting you, encouraging you. This is the path to enlightenment.

I don't know if I'm necessary changing the maps as much as I am trying to understand the maps.

You are correct when you state that I'm not alone.

YOU will have to draw your own map rather than understanding one laid out to you by someone else. I wish you well on your journey.

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. I would also like to have the advice of the wise to guide my journey.

Fools won't heed it and the wise don't need it.

Timothy

Timothy Wrote:
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> Fools won't heed it and the wise don't need it.
>
> Timothy


Another word of wisdom - Never argue with a fool.

For me it was a lonely road as I never knew sites like this existed,I feel that it is a journey most of us make alone,support is there from sites like this or you may be fortunate enough to have someone on hand to help and guide you,however the way you feel is as already stated,betrayal,hurt,anger,I too felt the way you do at the moment,it heals and slowly dissapates,be kind to yourself,take things slowly and think things through rationally,for me I found that the betrayal and lies were the last emotions to leave me,then the healing truly began.

I almost posted that when this thread first appeared this morning, but didn't submit it because it seemed too snarky.

I still think it is kind of snarky, but in retrospect, after reading what I missed in today's excitement, I think I was on to something.

Party on.

I'm not around a ton lately. And I haven't followed all of your threads.

What I HAVE seen, however, is that you are a pot-stirrer. I haven't cared enough to try to figure out your angle, but you sure know what buttons to push.

If this place can help you on your journey- mazel tov! Truly, I mean that. But a lot of the answers you need are already here on the boards or on the permanent archives. And many other questions come in cycles and are answered on a very regular basis. So look before you ask, especially if you have a hunch that it might be an inflammatory thing to say.

Also realize that this is a "live and let live" place in many ways. There are people here from every walk of life relating to LDS. We absolutely understand when people need to vent and share their anger about something that happened in the church. We're not so big at letting members snipe at other members on the board. If you want to be well received, follow Wil Wheaton's advice and "Don't be a dick." There are lines and boundaries, and until you know this place well enough to know which ones can be pushed, you're better off acting in a safe and conservative manner. Just like any other place on the web, it's best to behave and act like a guest, and get your toes wet before jumping in.

You can ignore my advice all you want, but it's what I've got for you. If you're truly a troll you won't want to invest the time it takes to become trusted and feel welcome here.

Here's one of my absolute favorite youtube vids and I think it might help you out here. It's titled "How to Behave on an Internet Forum."

http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-behave-on-an-internet-forum

Cheers.

Your question shows mistrust. And yet you are here.

And I don't really blame you for mistrusting us. The LDS church trains members to marginalize and mistrust people who leave the LDS church. There is even a temple recommend question implying that it's unacceptable to sympathize with people who go against the church.

I wouldn't come to this site until I was all but sure the LDS church was false. I didn't want to be influenced by "anti-mormon lies" (turns out that they were mostly true).

And you asked if this site undermined "loyalty" to the church? Shouldn't the question be IF the church deserves loyalty at all? Decide IF it is trustworthy, THEN act appropriately?

The LDS church is in the business of controlling information that members have access to. It uses tactics to make members afraid to discuss doubts, afraid to read non-approved information, and afraid to trust people who have left (and often uses character assassination of "apostates" . . . even the word implies shame and dishonor . . . to make them off-limits).

Your post shows how deeply influenced you have been by these tactics.

For more information related to controlling religions, and how they keep their members in line, read here:

http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/articles/BITE.htm#information

After reading several of your posts over the past few days, I would highly recommend you visit the New Order Mormon board. I think that community would be a better fit for your at this particular point in your spiritual journey and recovery from the church. IMHO. I remember when I was first unplugging from the church and was still semi-brainwashed and unsure, NOM gave me a soft place to land and the strength to leave the church for good. I eventually outgrew the NOM board because I thankfully got to the point where I considered myself an exmo with no affiliations or loyalties to the church whatsoever. I was finally free.

Check it out. Good luck to you.

I'm only commenting because I feel very strongly about this -

In your journey towards enlightenment and freedom you need to also accept this FACT:

Being gay is NOT a lifestyle. Sexuality is NOT a choice.

It makes my stomach churn each time you write it because it is so wrong.

Anyway, seriously, check out New Order Mormon. Good luck.