You guys make me laugh and are helping me recover.

I was just wondering if there is anything as a non-religious scout troup because the same people that shun me at church shunned me all day at the pinewood durby. And as much as I tried not to let it bother me, it does.

"Go for the church with the best show." And let's face it, if you go to any Morg church on a Sunday, the show is a snooze-fest. So find a church (if you must, if you like community and whatever else) with a really good choir and a really good preacher and don't worry about the other shit.

Pinewood Derby ? Find a NON-mormon scout troup. That's where you'll find the folks with a sense of humor.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2011 11:32PM by wine country girl.

Thanks but I haven't gone to church in a couple of years with the exception of a few sundays recently with my son so he wouldn't have to sit alone when he insisted on going to sacrament meeting. It was a brave thing to do since I had to let the sacrament pass by. It was really stupid to confess my post marriage sins to the bishop after my 2nd divorce in 2008 knowing what I found out in 2004 about mormonism from the internet but I had put it out of my mind. That is until the Stake President broke my confidence (I thought they had rules)by telling my dad I wasn't worthy of church welfare and telling him more until he asked if he should leave twice and I said yes twice. So I dove into books. And I read and read until I knew for sure that the church wasn't true. And I'll never believe it again. So okay, I sinned and I was offended but that doesn't changed the fact that the church is all based on lies. The people that shun me have actually been shunning me for years. Ever since before my first divorce in 2003 when we moved across town to live near my parents. So I shouldn't be surprised when it happens. I actually showed up at church right after marrying my 3rd husband who was taking the missionary lessons, he was going to get baptised to make my parents happy. I had gained weight so people didn't recognize me and someone actually said hi to us and shook our hands because they thought we were new in the ward. When he realized I wasn't new he didn't say hi next time I saw him when I said hi. I don't know what kind of gossip is going around, maybe just the truth, but when I was first divorced from my 1st temple marriage I was worthy and was still shunned(maybe because I was divorced?)who knows. Oh and since my second husband didn't get baptised, now the missionaries have come by a few times, a couple of times with other members. They actually gave me a lesson on repentance and brought a ward member who told me how Jesus' atonement had gotten him back in to the church when he had a rough spell before his mission or something. I thought that took a lot of nerve because that means they must be talking about how I need to repent, where did they get that information and why are they telling other members to tell me their repentance stories. Oh and I figure that I did repent, I mean I confessed everything, I felt like they didn't accept my repentance when they disfellowshipped me. Whatever. What I meant by going to church less than never is that I never go to church now and still have to see these people. Anyway I need you guys for support, don't have much from anywhere else except nevermo husband, and kids who are starting to doubt(I hope). I come from a very TBM family with roots all the way back. Dealing with a lot of judgement. I'm the only one I know who knows it's a fraud and have already told them. I had to promise not to bring it up again. I get a lot of guilt trips from them. They want to make sure the children go to church. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. It's up to them, but I don't keep it a secret that I don't believe anymore. Help!!!!!!!! (Please be kind with your responses, thanks),

I meant "since my third husband didn't get baptised" oops.

The belief in an afterlife is not founded in reality. There is nothing in the real world that suggests that angels, spirits, deamons, gods, ghosts or any other fabled creature exists. Some people take drugs, have hallucinations and then believe that that proves that there is more to reality. But whatever they say only is a fabrication of their own mind and not real.

It is fairly easy to make up some story, and quite difficult to prove any made up story to be untrue. Example: Two years ago I was sleeping when I was awakened by ... And then ... And after that ...

Some people claim to have had near-death experiences. When you examine these stories you will find that these experiences really do not prove anything.

Also dreams are just constructs of our mind and not visions of things that actually exist.

Churches exchange real goods (your money, service) against promissed goods that will be given you in the afterlife. It is a very lucrative business model.

Scouting is a hierarchical organisation and mainly serves the interest of the churches and the militaristic state as your child is taught to follow orders and work in exchange for badges and awards. There are groups you can be apart of that do not require you to fall in line and obey orders, groups that value the individual for who he or she is.

...scout troups and I think you should investigate them. I belonged to a Lutheran-sponsored Girl Scout troup as a child, and it was a wonderful experience. The church was warm and supportive without being the least bit intrusive or prosylitizing. As a senior, I joined a troop that met at a public library.

I think it's rather hilarious (and sad) that the SP told your dad that you weren't "worthy of church welfare." I'll bet that your money was plenty good enough for them, however. What hypocrites!

> So okay, I sinned and I
> was offended but that doesn't changed the fact
> that the church is all based on lies.

I never really thought of it in those terms. Everyone in my ward is saying I was offended and I've been so busy being outraged at being lied about because I was never offended, that I didn't stop to think "So what? Even if I had been offended, the church still wouldn't be true." It almost makes me wonder if they don't go about offending inactives with their truly awful, un-Christlike behavior to try to make their self-justifications into reality. Like a self-fulfilling prophecy or something. They can't handle the idea people leave for good reasons, so they have to make SURE the inactives were offended. If it helps, I was a little Miss Goody Two Shoes and I still get all the judgmental, "You Need to Repent" crap from my so-called priesthood people too. I think it is standard operating procedure and not related to anything you actually do or don't do. Jerks.

There is a non-denominational Scout troop in my town, hosted by the Community Church and sponsored by the local Kiwanis club. Anyone is welcome to join and their activities are way more fun and way better supervised than the ersatz Morg troops I've worked with.

Just keep reminding yourself you are the one that is right and those Mormons you are having to deal with are not only wrong but WAY out of line. Good luck.

Yeah, I not only paid a full tithing and gave fast offerings during my 1st TBM temple marriage but at one point gave a very, very, very generous welfare donation after getting a settlement from a malpractise lawsuit from losing my first son.

The 12:59am response was for Summer. Thanks everyone for all of your responses they are helping.

You know what CA girl, I have thought about it before and now that you have brought it up I do think that the Stake President was litterally trying to offend me for whatever reason. I was disfellowshipped shortly after that in a "Court of Love" (yeah right). Anyway, the point is, if the church was really true, I wouldn't have let anything or anyone stop me from going through with all of their rules to get back to full fellowship, full repentance, full activity, back to the temple with a new TBM spouse, I wouldn't have. It wouldn't matter if I was offended, IF it were all true, I would do what I had to do to repent. I have three children who I would have wanted to be with forever, my second husband was LDS and I had planned on getting sealed(he ended up being abusive though). My third husband was ready to be baptised and take me to the temple eventually. I had given up my highschool sweetheart who I loved with all of my heart when I was 19 because he wasn't LDS and wouldn't join the church and had found someone who would. The fact is the church is not true, period. The evidence is on this site and many others. And like I said that Stake President DID mean to offend me. He was awful. He said that my kids shouldn't even be with me(because of my sinning)WTH? they knew nothing about it. When I said that I was sexually molested when I was a child by both TBM Uncles (one a BYU Proffessor)he said, "SO!" When I said that TBM's that I was dating were the ones that wanted me to sin with them he said, "Of Course they do". He also told me that my bipolar disorder did not effect my resistance to certain sins, which it does. He also asked how old I was and said that I was getting up there in age, I was 42 at the time. I couldn't believe he said that or that I shouldn't have my kids with me because I am a sinner. He definately meant to offend me.

I hear the stories over and over about shunning.
it cost me my wife and family when the bishop called me
in and how I blew the whistle over some racist guy against
asians and how the gossip led my wife being deported.
I became angry at the bishop for brushing the matter under the carpet, all i needed was compasion as I was re-activating my wife back to church and a future temple sealing.
Rather I got salt thrown in wounds and terminated from attending
and that was 5 years ago. Not one repliey from mail sent to
him and new bishop and still shunned today. But I did find out
that my BIOPOLA DISORDER was not welcomed in PERTH DIANELLA
TEMPLE WARD WESTERN AUSTRALIA..

Stuck up italian marfia mob run that ward not a christians
bootlace. Just thugs...

LEVITE......

Wow, I can't believe I said three children,(I've had four). I usually never leave out my 1st born that I was taught was in the celestial kingdom already. But like I said if the church was really true, nothing would have stopped me from making it back to be with that little boy. I wonder what the real truth is, I am leaning towards atheism more and more and more. At first it made me angry not to believe at least in Jesus, but I am leaning more towards atheism especially when I hear my niece getting indoctrinated with Jonah and the Whale and when I go to Young Women's with my daughter and hear them talk about how Lot's Wife was turned into salt for looking back, rediculous. I just don't know where my little boy is. I still feel like he's still somewhere. I wish I knew. Phsycics are very interesting to me, like John Edward. I wonder. Any ideas?

And where's my grandpa? I wasn't able to go see him before he died, I was too overwhelmed with three little kids and an unsupportive husband. He was the only one who really probably had it right. He was inactive, drank coffee, had smoked, I wished I could have said good bye in more than just a phone call. What a wonderful grandpa. He would have done anything if my grandma would have survived her brain tumor back in 1983, he would have even gone back to church, he prayed, and cried and prayed and cried. But she did die, just like my son. When my son was sick with brain damage from birth I said, "We live in the true church, why can't we just have the prophet come and give him a blessing." But if the church was true, my dad's and husbands blessings would have been enough. I know, I know they told me it was a test. Well, they failed, the church is not true!!! So where is my son and where is my grandpa and for that matter where is my grandma, I cried and cried and cried at her funeral. So does anyone know? Are we just dust in the wind?

...without being Mormon or even Christian. The ancient Romans and Greeks believed in an afterlife long before Christianity came along.

All Christians and many non-Christians believe that they will be reuninted with their loved ones in the afterlife. You do not need to be Mormon to believe that you will see your loved ones again someday.

First of all, let me tell you that my experience with shunning was the same as yours, and CA girl's, and many others on this board. I lived a squeaky-clean life, trying as hard as I could to be honest and Christ-like. Though I never sinned or even rebelled, the ward made up stories about me, and even my own TBM sister-in-law spread false gossip about me.

Shunning and gossipping is just standard operating procedure with the Mormons, and it is not YOU, it is them.

You are correct in thinking that they pick on you because you are divorced.

I assume that you want to keep your parents close to you, because you feel that your children need them. Maybe they do. You seem wise. Probably the only way to keep that relationship going, is for your kids to go to church, for now. I don't know how old your children are.

I left the cult because it was hurting my children. In primary, they were taught that because their father and I were divorced, that they would all be separated from me and from each other for all eternity, and that they would "pass by each other as strangers" in the hereafter. My daughter was crying hysterically about this. Fortunately, They did not believe their teachers, that they would burn in the Second Coming unless they obeyed. I won't go into detail, but the adult priesthood leaders broke into our house to drag my sons to meeting, and kicked and shoved them in the process. The bishop's repulsive son tried to molest my little girl when she was asleep at church campout. All of my children used to have nightmares about the Mormons. The Mormon cult was the most troublesome, hated thing in our lives.

In California, my children and I attended a neighborhood Lutheran church for several years, and we were happy there. When I got divorced (#2) from their father, we were in Utah, and I felt that I needed the support of our Mormon family and Mormon neighbors--not so, in our case.

My sons stopped going to church before I did, and they joined a great Scout troop, with their non-Mormon friends, led by our Methodist neighbors. The the troop was non-denominational, and met at different churches. They went on a fabulous hiking excursion to Yosemite and along the John Muir trail, where I had hiked with my father and brothers. They also ventured to Catalina Island, the Wind River Mountains, Yellowstone, and Havasupi. They made life-long friends, and some of them still get together, as adults, and hike the Wind Rivers.

A non-Mormon Scout troop would give your kids the opportunity to know that non-Mormons are wonderful people, and to be around normal adults who love their children unconditionally. The leaders are not assigned, but are true volunteers who are in it for the love of children. Yes, they do have a sense of humor.

BALANCE is the key for you and for your children. Talk to them about what their Primary teachers are teaching them. Don't let the Mormons threaten or scare them into obedience. Set your kids straight on the lies. Help them understand that divorced people are just as good as anyone else. Don't allow them to become prejudiced or hateful toward those who are "different."

Teach them that YOU--their mother--has authority over them, above anyone else. Encourage them to question authority, and not follow blindly. Teach them how to say "NO." Teach them to pay attention to their gut instincts. Any child must learn these things, in order to avoid child abusers and pedophiles, who often use their "authority" to manipulate children.

My children were wise and strong enough to stand up to the Mormon abuse, and chose to leave the cult on their own. We officially resigned together. Today, so far, they are loving, successful, honest and good.

Your pinewood derby experience sounds awful! My kids hated awkward, forced, competitive activities like that. They loved their school activities and sports, and concentrated on those. There is no law that says your son has to endure shunning or harassment of any kind! The Mormons would use force and manipulation to coerce my kids into participating. If my children didn't want to go, I figured they had valid reasons to not want to. I would step in and tell Mormons "no" for my children. Often the leaders would come to our house ANYWAY, to puck up the kids, even after I had said "no." Often I would have to get assertive and say, "As I told you several times already, my child has to do his homework tonight, and I will not allow him to go to the activity. I am the authority as his parent--not you."

Sorry to ramble, but I'm saying that you can't just leave your child alone with the Mormons. You need to keep restraints and boundaries, and protect your kids if necessary. Don't allow the Mormons to shun your child or be cruel to him in any way!

Not only do I never go to the Mormon church, I go to the Methodist church, I donate and volunteer elsewhere. I don't behave like a Mormon. I am friendly, and smile, and laugh, and have long hair, and like pets, and care about the environment. I try not to judge others (yeah, I do judge Mormons, though) and don't say bad things about other people. I've gotten rid of old prejudices. I don't allow talk about religion in the workplace, and I have a personal "no politics or religion" rule at parties, At my house, we serve coffee and alcohol if someone wants it, and we don't say a blessing on the food. I wear cute Victoria's Secret underwear. I don't eat Mormon food, and tossed all those icky, fatty, sugary recipes (lost 20 lbs).

You might have to conform to some of your parents' demands right now, but you can be yourself, at your core, and separate yourself from Mormonism in your heart. Encourage your children to do the same, until they can break free.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2011 04:40AM by forestpal.

Dear forestpal,

Thank you for your response. It is very helpful. I don't think my son is getting shunned. I don't think he noticed that I was. My 2nd oldest daughter does have a problem with mean girls at Young Women's though. I will re-read your post again and ask them some questions. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe they are shunning the kids as well because of me. I wish I would have thought about that before. They sure seem to be sick on Sunday morning a lot now and not wanting to attend church. At Young Women's New Beginnings the teacher prayed that the girls could all have forever families. The teacher taught that sexual sin is next to murder(anyone else find that extreme, the next to murder thing)? Also at the last one the bishop or one of the counselers wanted the girls to learn from their parents mistakes or something, I thought that took a lot of nerve, I'm sure I was included in that thought, and I guess there must have been others. And when they recited the thirteenth article of faith my daughter looked at me and smiled when she said "We believe in all things" because when I repeated it from memory for her when she asked if I knew it I said it perfectly except of course I said. "We believe in being chased by an elephant" instead of "We believe in being chaste and benevolent" and I also said instead of We believe in all things I said "We believe in anything in the whole wide world no matter what it is" that made her laugh and when they recited it together she looked at me and smiled. Anyway my kids are smart and we are honest with each other, I may look into a non-denominational scout troup or one of another denomination. Thank you.

I'm still wondering if anyone has answers to what happens to us after we die. I have seen those books 20 minutes in heaven or 15 minutes in hell or whatever they're called, but was it just those people's imaginations? I was relieved however to hear about sleep paralysis because I had a frightening experience when I was 19 with what I thought was the devil in a thrown next to my bed and his demons trying to pull my spirit away from my body, my boyfriend at the time told me it was because I had been taught to believe in all of that. It was weird that it was at a critical time. I had believed that the demons were trying to pull my spirit out of my body to kill me before I could repent as that was what was about to happen. It solidified my testimony more than anything else at the time. I have also thought that it made me believe that there must be a God if there is a devil that I actually saw. However, after I read about sleep paralysis I have been hoping that is what it was. I still pray at night to prevent this to this very day and it seems to work even if it is just all in my mind, like a trick I play on myself. I have also thought that if there is a devil he would have known which path it would lead me to, back to the mormon church. Away from what I thought was true love. Towards a TBM man that turned my life into a nightmare when he left me with 3 young children 17 years later. So, if the devil is so smart, if he exists at all, he must have known it would lead me back to the mormon church. Why would he want that? Good question. Hmmmmm. Anyway, like I said, I'm leaning towards atheism and if there is no God there must be no devil, so it was most likely my overactive imagination, right? That was at a time when if you played a record backward you heard Satan talking to you and in seminary we would talk about the devil. I did wonder how the wiji board moved all by itself, we only tried that once or twice, scary. I did not like that. My daughter loves anything to do with shows about ghosts, like ghost hunters. Anyway, I guess I'm just wondering what anyone elses thoughts are on the subject of the afterlife. I saw a movie called "Hereafter" not too long ago at the theatre. It was very good, with Matt Damen. Anybody have anything interesting to say about any of this?

angeybabey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm still wondering if anyone has answers to what
> happens to us after we die.

There's a song called "Let the Mystery Be" by a folk singer called Iris DeMent. I posted the lyrics here once. I'll let you google it. Basically it states how everyone has their own opinion about the afterlife, and she doesn't know, so she prefers to let the mystery be. It pretty much states how I feel. There's no way of knowing what happens after death. Maybe we just wink out, maybe not. I'd like to keep going after I die, I'd like to see my grandfathers again, I'd like to see my pets that have passed, and so forth. But I can't know, so, I'm trying to be pragmatic and just say "let the mystery be." It's all out of my control. I still give it some thought, but I don't give it worry.

I've said it before and I'll say it again

I am dismayed.... no, I am DISGUSTED.... that the Morg seem to have taken over the Boy scouts, as some kind of adjunct to YM.

I just remembered something else. There is a lady in my ward who was in my last ward before it split as well. In Sunday School and Relief Society she would participate a lot. But she would usually start with, "On my mission, bla bla bla bla." I really think she talked about her mission every week. I mean I'm sure it is a huge sacrifice and not an easy thing to do to serve a mission. I mean all three of my brothers served missions so I know a little bit about it. But really, does she have to bring it up every week. Anyway, she was one of the many, many, many people who never bothered to say hi, never bothered to smile at me, never bothered to shake my hand or welcome me or heaven forbid get to know me. As a matter of fact I can count on less than one hand anyone that ever even said anything to me for years of me being there every single week. Anyway, so my mom was Relief Society President and my dad was gospel doctrine teacher. So one day in the old ward that was also my parents ward, she came up to my mom and went on and on about how much she thought of my mom, never saying a thing to me. I was sitting right next to my mom looking at her. I am much closer to this woman's age. Anyway, now she and I are in the same ward but my mom is still in the old ward. So still, the same treatment, no one seems to care one way or the other about me. Then she becomes my Visiting Teacher. She and another girl like her. They visit me and probably can't understand why I look at them the way I do. Why I don't feel comfortable with them visiting with me. It's because they are only visiting with me because they are assigned to. I even told them before Christmas that I wasn't going to be able to buy my kids any presents. They never told anyone or offered help nor did anyone else. At least apparantly not since no one helped. Anyway, so time went by and she wasn't my visiting teacher anymore. So my 3rd husband had accepted the missionaries invitation to be baptised like he always said he would the whole three years we dated to keep my parents happy. Anyway like I said, we had gone to church once and had someone welcome us with a handshake thinking we were new in the ward. So they wanted us to go to more Sacrament meetings and stuff so I went with my two daughters to a recipe tasting evening that the young women were invited to. Well, there is the Visiting Teacher that never talked to me before she visit taught me. Guess what? She didn't talk to me anymore again, now that she's not my visiting teacher anymore. Weird. I saw her again at the pinewood derby today. No Hello. Nothing. That's how everyone is. I suppose the rumors must be bad. I don't know. I just never want to go to anything at that church ever again. I may have to, but I hope not. I remember telling a guy I was dating that had been a Jehova's Wittness at one time that the shunning in our church after disfellowshipping doesn't exist because no one else knows but the bishop about what you confess. Wrong. I have never had a bishop not tell my parents what I confessed. Not when I was 15, not when I was 19 and not when I was 42. The mormons that I dated after my divorces told me they do not confess...anything. Same with my mormon roommate. One guy said he will only confess after he gets married again. I told the bishop this and he said that they are not truly repenting then. OK, well I did confess, but they didn't accept it apparantly. That's my opinion. Oh and the bishop wanted my boyfriends 1st and last names and wards if possible......no way!!!!!

I got my Eagle right before my 14th birthday, which was probably premature but I likely wouldn't have gotten it if I hadn't gotten it then. My scout leader was a super guy who recognized me as an awkward, bookish but highly intelligent 13 year old in need of guidance.

When I turned 14, I moved to teacher's level. I can barely remember who the leader was, but I remember absolutely hating scouts. Mostly, I thought the guys were jerks and they mocked scouts because they were forced to go. They really ruined the Scouting experience because the ones who didn't wanted to be there mocked those who even looked like they were enjoying it. After a couple of weeks, I refused to go and only went on Sundays to church. I started working and made sure I was scheduled for scout or YM/YW nights.

One of my non-Mormon HS friends was a scout at the UU church. He found out that I was an Eagle and invited me to go. Even though it was at a church, I don't recall a single religious message. I actually had a lot of fun. After a couple of weeks, we had to wear our scout uniforms, so I showed up wearing my Eagle badge and Order of the Arrow. The Scout Master and other scouts were really impressed since I hadn't said anything about it before. The Scout Master asked me if I wanted to transfer, because he thought Eagle Scouts should have leadership positions and he said the guys really could use my help.

I was excited for scouts for the first time since I left Deacons. I went on a couple of campouts with them and then decided to switch. I took the form home to my mom and she freaked out! She said there was no way she was going to let me go to another church, so she told me that I couldn't go again. That was the last time I ever had anything to do with Scouts.

I think my mom was worried about me joining another church, even though I insisted that the UU's had never injected any religion at all into their troop. I think she was also worried that the Bishop would freak out at a Mormon kid joining another BSA troop. The Mormons didn't do much for me and they didn't care that I was an Eagle since they forced everyone into it. They turned the BSA into an arm of the church, killing most of the fun and leadership opportunities.

I probably would have dropped scouts when I turned 16, since high school kids have little time for such things, but I think my mom made a huge mistake. She'd rather I didn't go at all than go to a non-Mormon troop. The irony is that the few times I go to church nowadays, I always go to the UUs.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2011 08:36AM by axeldc.

Demons exist, but the bible says that the dead are concious
of nothing and we dont have souls. The devil may try to kill
us and rob us of repentance,but once we are dead we sleep
until the resurrection of just or unjust. The just are
made immortal and the unjust are made MORTAL to suffer the
2nd death with the devils and angels. No eternal torment
just NON EXISTANCE for eternity DEAD. Thats hell to become
a nothing. No pain in it but never again exist is hell to
think about and worse than mormon occult belief we have
spirits and even Hitler ends up in the lowest degree of
heaven 3 times more beautifal than this earth..

NOPE.....We do have this life to accept the WORD OF THE
BIBLE and rebuke occultism that invites, even into holy
temples demonic false light beings to appear as our ancestors
and imitate them...

LEVITE.

And what if demons don't exist, that's all part of religion's societal purpose to control you through fear?

Think about it. How would you feel if you didn't believe in hell and demons?

You have proof of this or do you just like to shoot off your mouth ?

Dave the Athiest, welcome back. I always like your provocative
stirring replieys, but your right many demons may not exist and
only in our minds. I do have witness's of my personal encounter
kicking against the pricks as an terminated and now ex mormon
with some mothman creature (see actualaliens.com)click on abductions and scan down to majorfraser my two articals.
I cop some flap afterwards from critics but I am a surviver
of terrorfying ordeals that led me to the mad house.
Unfortentely once in the mad house no one takes ya seriously
and meds are giving out..

My witness's of demons in the same house Know what they
experienced and they are my only proof that something did
happen when I was under attack as it turned the house almost
upside down, water running through the house off the furniture
my musical equipment ruined, down the passage way, blue slim
in both fridges back and front of house. Things disappeared
musty smells and lights exploding...

All coincidence I dont think so. Tho the mind is powerful enough to play tricks except the tricks are truly supernormal
be it mind or demons. Can athiest at least believe the mind
can create its own evil as in my case hatred against a bishop
I wanted smashed for breaking up my family and termnated me
for what my wife suffered over nazies in the church that had
her deported, all I can say is that it seems that demons exist
and in the holy mormon temple I also seen spirits dressed in
white. But the bible says the dead are concious of nothing
so its all just tricks of the mind or its demons even inmitating our dead ancestors...

Angels thats another story. I can personally send you a photo
of one captured at a seven day aventist camp when bikies
were going to rape the sisters, and one called apon an angel
to protect them, a flash of lightening above the bikies head
and they fled with fear. A photo was taken by a near by sister
living through the fear, and when devolped the angel 7 foot
tall, whith robe and the works. But the face was just light
but some features were there in the face linning..

food for thought Dave the Athiest and yes mate I take my
meds like a good non mormon in recovery. so I'm on the level

I'm from a history of staunch athiests but I'm the first
to got sucked into relegion as way of life...

levite..

I've been thinking about it and I would have to say that the kids are being shunned. I say that because I've never been able to get one of my sons friends to come over to the house and play. I called two different families many times and they were never able to. I'm about to find out if this new friend that my son has made at scouts will be able to or not because he has gone somewhere with them. So, next, it should be our turn to have him come over or go somewhere with us. My guess is the parents won't ever let it happen. I think it is time for all of us to get out. I know it has effected my self esteem and is sure to effect theirs as well. I think that it is terrible how these people treat other people as not good enough because they are inactive or "unworthy". I don't know what a UU church is. I don't even know if I want to find another church but it might be good for the kids. My husband use to go the the Salvation Army Church.Nondenominational is what I've thought about. Can anyone give some input?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2011 06:11AM by angeybabey.

It's on the more liberal, free-thinking end of the spectrum. You might also give the mainstream groups a try (Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Episcopal, etc.) There is no pressure to join or be baptised in any of those churches. You can go for a year or more without being pestered.

It's perfectly okay to go "church shopping."