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Posted by: Jesus Smith ( )
Date: January 25, 2011 07:55AM

I'm sure many of you have made these connection before, so excuse my naivety.

Last Sunday I spoke with two young missionaries. They seemed very sincere and honest about what they were doing. I posed several questions that started them thinking about why they had committed to two years for a church that they thought they knew was true. By the end of the discussion, I could tell both were questioning it. They asked me for books they could read (not anti books, but books on science, logic and good thinking). They weren't so sure the witness of the spirit wasn't just self-delusion.

Today I asked myself if I had done the right thing by them. I realized something...Breaking the LDSinc delusion for members may be a lot like it was decades ago helping gays out themselves.

While I have no experience with the latter, I can imagine that some gays who had the courage to come out, encouraged others to do the same. It was (and still is) probably tricky with society having a low acceptance. Many were ostracized and haunted by the decision come out, maybe even depressed. Some I believe I have read and heard committed suicide for the torment society dealt them. In the long run, however, those individual struggles turned the corner for the movement as a whole.

In a sense, not as serious perhaps, the struggle to leave the Morg is similar. Loneliness, depression, loss of sleep, family and job even can result. Someday, I believe the momentum of members outing themselves from the delusion will stop the culture from hurting those that leave. But right now, individuals are going through pain to leave.

Do I help or hurt them by posing the tough questions to members?

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Posted by: intellectualfeminist ( )
Date: January 25, 2011 09:15AM

I've made the coming out connection myself, and I think the analogy is very apt. I've also pondered the help them or hurt them dilemma in discussing things with my own kids. I take it one day at a time and if there's a timely issue or moment, I've shared some things, appropriate to the age level & understanding of my respective children.
As far as the missionaries, you're not forcing them to listen to you. They were willing to talk to you, listen to you and even ask a few questions; that takes a lot of courage, especially under the circumstances. And THEY asked you for books to read! I think that's wonderful!
If you were pushing it on them and not respecting boundaries like TSCC, that would be different. But IMHO, I think the doubts and concerns are unwarranted. They are essentially "big boys" even though they're emotionally immature and intellectually stunted, and they'll have to start dealing with life sooner or later. You're motivated by a genuine concern for their welfare, unlike their church and their missionary service; I'm sure they were able to intuit that by your approach, otherwise they wouldn't have stayed around that long to talk to you. And who knows; someday perhaps one or both of them will make their way here. If anything JS, I'd say you're to be congratulated on how you handled this! And I too hope we soon see the day when the pain of coming out will be mitigated and diminished, for ALL of us.

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Posted by: Jesus Smith ( )
Date: January 25, 2011 02:26PM

Thanks, I.F. The last thing they need is to stress being in a mission when they don't believe. Talk about feeling trapped.

They have my number and email if they want to contact me though. They invited me to come hear the "evidence" that Ted E Brewerton has on 16th century ancient american documents. Should be fun.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: January 25, 2011 03:17PM


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Posted by: Charlie ( )
Date: January 26, 2011 02:49PM

My life long friend is gay and still in the mo. We had not been in contact with many years because he had been afraid he might be gay and I knew I was. So why put tension on him. When we got back incontact he had one divorce (temple marriage) because of his proclivities. He was in a horrible marriage with his widowed sister-in-law. Finally through exposure to me he found the courage to acknowledge his gayness. With a lot of nagging we got him out of the marriage, but not out of the mo. By the bye, he is still a virgin to gay sex and attending. I have begun the process of providing him with materials that I hope will allow him to make an informed decision as to whether to continue to live with the strictures of the mo. I emailed him the link to the Smithsonian statement on the BofM. I feel he can investigate, ignore me or tell me to back off. His choice, but I do feel it is my obligation to continue to try and help him reach a happier way to live. One full of honesty and light. No matter what tbm say the mo is a dark and uncomfortable place to live one's life.

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