Okay,

There were 8 barges, all the size of a tree and shaped and tight like a dish. They didn't have windows because they would smash (I know, I know, they didn't have glass in them days but let's give a pass on that one) but they did have a door and an air hole top and bottom with stoppers.

Now visualize the size and capacity of these vessels for a minute.

How many people travelled in them? Well, Jared, Jared's brother plus 22 souls who all had sons and daughters before travelling.
I'm going to estimate that there was at least fifty people but it may be higher than that. So at least 6 people per barge.

Now visualize a tree length barge containing six people.

What else did they take?

They took flocks and herds.

Now visualize a tree length barge containing six people plus a flock and a herd.

How was the journey?

They were tossed up and down and beneath the waves and they were sailing for 344 days.

Now visualize a tree length barge containing six people, a flock and a herd, that has been tossed about and lived in for 344 consecutive days without a break that only has a hole in the top for ventilation and is water tight.

Oh, and when they arrived, all the barges arrived at the same place and at the same time...

As you'll recall, the world leader were captured by removing all their water and reduced to a small pile of powder. Later, a few drops of water on the powder and they were instantly restored. Just be sure to keep each animal and person in a seperate ziplock baggie.

Was this technology available? Sure! Why not? It fits right in with the rest of the details.

-Certain trees in the Middle East are over 200 feet tall.

-It is quite possible they made a few stops along the way to restock on food and fresh water. The total length of the journey may have amounted to 344 days. When you tell people about your cross country road trip, do you them about every bathroom break? Of course not!

-As for the barges arriving at the same time, they were likely bound together with exceedingly strong cord

-If the Lord could change stones into light, it seems he could also have inspired them on the building of the barges. After all, they were not built after the manner of men. It its quite possible that there were large gyroscopic compartments inside each barge which kept the people, the flocks, etc. right side up throughout.

How did I do?

You are not quite FARMS material yet...

I was going to title this thread 'Where did all the pooh go...?'

Apologist claim the one on the floor acted like a moon pool, the openings in diving vessels that let divers leave the sub without letting water in because of the air trapped in the sub. So they argue the poop was disposed of that way. I would still like to see one of them put the theory to a test by personally living in a barge for a year with flocks and herds.

And if god was directingnthe design of the barges why didn't he think of the fact that they were going to need light amd air?

I think the fact that barges were a familiar site on the eerie canal that passed through Palmyra is when the inspiration for the story came from. I would bet that part of the bom at least is probably all JS.

I've been wondering if some of the tall tales in the BOM will be highlighted in the BOM musical. If all the nonsense is put out there to be lampooned by the whole world, and everyone is laughing that mormons actually believe that they're real things that actually happened, I'll betcha it won't be long before we're told that they were parables that were told for the purpose of teaching the people and increasing their faith.

Afterall, no doctrinal changes are made in the church until it becomes public embarrassment. I'm prophecying right now that if those stories are played out on stage, we'll start seeing some backpedling.

....what did they do with all the animal poop? 344 days worth.

I think some days Joe just put stuff like that in his book of Mormon to see how far he could string people along. Like actually using the word Moron...as in the land of Moron!

Imagine all the pee (Amonia) smelll alone would kill most of the birds and people.

And that hole in the top and bottom would have needed to be large enough for people and animals to get through as well as shoveling all the poo out the hole. If larger enough the hole might have been to weak to hold back the water.

The other thing that makes me laugh is why sub's in the first place. The first group made it by boat why in the world did MO god need a sub? God can calm the storms and sails would have been way faster? Less food needed and time and everything else.

All things being equal the simplest answer is the correct one. (It was all made up).....

Anubis

This is easily answered. Anachronisms mean nothing when it comes to mormon stories. As a matter of fact if there are no anachronisms in the story, then god would cease to be god. Truth is these barges had astronaut type seating, harnesses and everything. They were strapped in, animals too. Nobody was flopping around, falling this way and that way. The lard had everything covered...geeeez! I would explain the oxygen thing but it's way to complicated.

At any rate, for the fecal matter and urine, everyone was geared up with colostomy bags or even adult sized diapers (that is when they were invented, see FARMS) for those who didn't want the invasive poop bag. Too, everyone had a catheter for the urine if of course the diaper was not chosen. Animals did not have a choice in this matter.

With god nothing is impossible. The bearded man in the clouds could have just sent them to the future in a time machine and rented a nuclear submarine. Then cross these Jaredites to their destination in luxury. Then send them back to the past.

He didn't because god works in very mysterious ways that we could never comprehend. Too, he wanted the Jaredites to experience a bit discomfort so they would stay humble. Which really didn't work 'cause he ended up offing everyone of them eventually and for dramatic effect had one get his head cut off and then stand up and raise his arms to the air saying, "oh god hear the words of my mouth", three times and then he fell back to the earth with a big thud. Of course no one heard the thud 'cause everyone was deeed!

This is the real story and I am sticking to it.

http://packham.n4m.org/ships.htm "Jaredite Ship-building Technology" by Kent Ponder, Ph.D.

Thanks Richard, I sent this to many on my email list.

How could we have been so blinded?

The fact I ever bought the Jaredite story is still embarassing to me, more than 20 years later. I was raised around cattle, and anyone who has ever tried to get a cow to walk up a wooden ramp into a trailer knows how skitish they are when they are worried about their footing, so geting them up to the hole on top of the wooden "dish" is a stretch at best. Now let's say we get them there, next to the hole that is small enough that it can be sealed, and unsealed, yet remain water tight, yet big enough for men and livestock to enter(lol). How do we safely get them to the bottom? We can't make a gently sloping ramp, as the top of the dish is slanted. We can't do a steep ramp as the cattle would have nothing to do with it, and even if you forced them down it, they would break their legs at the bottom, and create a useless pile of meat and bones. The invention of the crane(even the hand one) is many years away, but assuming we had simple block and tackle, pully technology, due to the shape of the vessel, think how long the arm would have to be, so that we could pick up livestock from the ground and rotate and deliver them into the "dish". Now, with that in mind, think how heavy that arm with payload would be, and how long the other side of the lever, would have to be to counter weight the arm, to make it easy enough to manuver. How would you even anchor such a large heavy lever(remember it has to spin)? This would be a much greater miracle than the dish boats themselves, yet no mention of this miracle??!! Strange. It's kinda like it was made up by someone with no formal education...


dumb, dah, dumb, dumb,...

Edit- Just looked at some artist drawings of what they think they looked like, and it isn't the same as my primary teachers drawing that made it look like two bowls on top of each other, "like unto a flying saucer" so it could sail on both sides, etc. so this post will be confusing if you are picturing something different, sorry! lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2011 11:29AM by jon1.

..I can barely stand the smell in open air, when I'm scooping manure in the barn. The stench and the filth would have been unbearable. I have always called sheep shiz on this BOM story, as I did when I was a 12 year old deacon - a deacon who had to shovle chicken manure after school each day. Some story's are just too incredibly unbelievable - and this one is beyond bizarre and rediculous.

"How to make a giant poop smoothie."

A barge drifts. It doesn't sail.

The "barges" were merely large barrels.

So they drifted over from Jerusalem in 8 barrels and landed at the same time in the same place ?

It's a miracle I tell ya' !!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2011 12:08PM by Dave the Atheist.

Two thoughts about the Jaredite story.

1. Why is it that the brother of Jared got to see god's finger and Moses got the backside? Who was the more righteous. ... and what was the position in which the backside and finger were seen?

2. I don't know why I didn't laugh myself off when JS did his "go away kid, you bother me" comedy routine when he "revelated" that the name of the Brother of Jared was Mahonrimoriacumor (or something like that).

http://www.downtoearthnw.com/blogs/year-plenty/2010/sep/02/family-turns-mesa-az-pool-chicken-coop-tilapia-farm-and-hydroponic-garden/

Ok, so they don't have herds of animals in there or the family living in there, and they aren't using glowing rocks to give light to the plants, but some sort of set up like this where the waste from one living thing feeds the other living things which are eaten by the Jaredites during their trip. The story is still totally bogus, but it is possible to imagine one possible argument for where did the poop go.

One of the very last stories I told my 7 year olds in Primary was the Jaredite barges. I even drew a picture of what they would have looked like. We talked about it a long time. When did I get so stupid? It shows how much a cult the lds church really is. They say the same things over and over and over,and you just repeat it without thinking.

The hole at the bottom of the barge is where the animals should have entered.