I am a new person to this board--should I worry that my identity would be found out? I just recently left the church--a convert of 20 years--leaving at the end of Sept. 2010. Married with 4 wonderful children. One of my daughter's came home from church yesterday and told me that her dad cried 6 times while giving a talk at church. He did not even tell me that he was giving a talk. I was beyond pissed because I always am there to support my family. Then to top it all off--members post on MY FB wall about how wonderful my husband is and how much he loves me. Now what possesses these people's minds that they feel it is appropriate to point their fingers at me because had I known I would have been there to support him whether I agreed with his talk on "marriage" (convenient topic don't you think for a husband of an apostate). Needless to say, I am livid with my husband. He has hundreds of people who support his beliefs and I have maybe 2 people I can discuss this with. I sacrificed my whole family to be a part of a church that deceived me and could not even pass their own temple recommend interview. Member or stake presidency hounds me and my husband to get me to talk about our differing opinions of JS--and all the "love bombing" multiple times a week.

My biggest sticking point is that JS had individuals sign an affidavit denying polygamy yet he was practicing it all along. My last calling was teaching relief society from JS manual, I thought he was a meek and gentle person. Of course, all the quotes in the manuals are taken way out of context and is so whitewashed. Having people sign their name to a piece of paper used to be important, did it not?

I am about to explode...

"members post on MY FB wall about how wonderful my husband is and how much he loves me."

A form of manipulation to make you feel guilty, I suspect.

And no, I don't think there's any way in H your ID would be compromised on this board.

What was your husband's talk about, do you have more specifics?

I saw his typed notes: love, respect, and I cannot remember third bullet. It was a decent talk. He said the reason he did not tell me was for the fact, the day before we went to a funeral for a member in our ward (she was 44--cancer) and I huffed and puffed during the two talks. I guess once the switch is flipped, it is flipped--I am able to see and hear the manipulation so much more clearly now. The lady whose funeral we attended, her two oldest daughters are inactive and yet they thought a funeral (their own mother's funeral--where they are obviously in a lot of grief) was the place to preach consequences to our choices. I felt horrible for these two young ladies. BUT, my husband believes I am just reading "anti" literature--not that I have read thousands and thousands of pages on both sides. The signing your name to a piece of paper I just cannot over look--am I crazy or what?

You're not crazy but realizing you were lied to and brainwashed for 20 years can make you feel crazy. The reality is, you are the one who is trying to leave the craziness behind. Mormonism is what's crazy. Sadly, TBMs will tell you that you are the one with the problem.

I feel for you. It's really hard to leave the church especially when you have a TBM spouse. I'm glad you found this board, there are a lot of people here that can really relate to what you are going through right now and who will be able to offer you good advice.

I hope that coming to this board will help you and make you feel less alone, I don't post very often, but even just reading others' experiences here has helped me deal with leaving the church.

You are not alone and definitely NOT crazy.

Soon after we stopped attending church I went to the funeral of a relative I had known all through my childhood from family reunions. He'd tragically died by falling down a floor in home that was being remodeled (he was home teaching apparently) so sad.

When I knew him best, his whole family drank and partied but were the funnest family in the whole extended family. They basically ran the reunion and kept it from being a "do your genealogy" type Utah reunion.

Well, later in life he'd started going back to the LDS church but most of his kids were still out. Keep in mind, this is still the most loving and involved family I know despite their church differences.

I was so ticked because the bishop had the balls to stand in front of these kids and proclaim that the deceased "fondest wish" was that his children be sealed to he and his wife for eternity. REALLY! That was his fondest wish you little rat bastard?

I just couldn't believe that he would stand in front of these grown children, when they've just expectantly lost their very beloved father in an accident, and tell them that all he wanted in life was for them to go back to church and get sealed to him.

First of all, I know he'd never say that to his children. Second, how manipulative and evil to do that at a funeral.

I've avoided funerals since then except for my nieces. I supposed I'll have to do something when my parents pass but I'm not even going to mention religion. I just can't believe that bishops are trained to use this time of grief for proselyting.

johanna
*****************

husband because you are apostate? You can only love your husband if you kowtow to their way of thinking?

Love the sinner, but hate the sin--he LOVES YOU SO MUCH because he has to love you enough to pull you back in.

I don't know what the situation is with your husband--but I think I'd have a good talk with him.

YOU NEED to be true to yourself.

The people who just LOOOOVVVVEEE my daughter in my neighborhood (who come and tell me what a wonderful person she is--she becames TBM at age 20--and I think, "I wonder who raised that child?!?!?")--so many think they have to help her save us so she can have a "forever family." We finally had to resign. I didn't think it was necessary until I realized I had to make a statement to all of them and to my daughter. I don't need an organization telling me that she is my daughter--it just is fact.

But you have a much BIGGER problem here. If I had gone to listen to my daughter speak (the many times she has), I would have taken away her freedom to say whatever she wanted about her heathen family or listened to a guilt trip. Your husband was wrong to talk about marriage UNLESS he talked about how wonderful of a marriage he has and how much he loves his wife JUST AS SHE IS--not what he wants to force her to be.

**It sounds like he listens. This is a private matter. The other people need to stay out of your marriage.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2011 11:19AM by cl2.

I agree with poster lostinutah -

The GUILT feeling is the only way the mormons know.

They can never give credit to someone using their brain because their own minds are so closed.

The 'anti' literature is always used too.
I usually respond with 'don't have time for anti, to busy reading church history'.

I was very careful about what I said on here until recently. I've been posting for a little more than two years. All my best posts were done "anon for this" because it would be too revealing.

After almost two years, I decided that if I haven't heard anything yet, I'm probably safe. But until recently, I thought that people in the ward or bishopric where trying to catch me in apostasy so that they could ex me. My wife didn't want that, so I was trying to be careful.

I think that it's natural to be worried. It is a cult after all. But so far I haven't been caught.

And yes, once the blinders are off, everything that is said starts sounding so dumb, so it's hard to be around the preaching. It all just sounds so cultish.

When they wanted to throw me out they offered to pay for my wife to have an appartment and to help support the children. It is ALL about separation, if they can keep one parent and all the potential tithe paying children.

Who ever is the apostate can look for to varying degrees of crookedness and deceit, and especially behind the back dealings.

I am sorry for you status, but you have to let it go and expect these things will be happenning well into the future.

JB

I know most people would say just to blow it off, but it seems to me that your husband was sharing intimate feelings about your marriage with your ward... and you were not invited!!!!

I would be pissed! And I would tell dh that this kind of shenanigan better never happen again. The crying business is embarrassing too. That kind of intimacy should be between you and him. It's like he's being more intimate with the ward than is appropriate.

@Tauna--my husband is a good guy...I am hoping that my marriage will survive all of this. I am just dumbfounded that he did not tell me?? He said 2 female members chastised him afterwards for not inviting me. I am just hoping I can frame this all in a way that I can move forward...it might take me a while.

Thank you all for your support...

The cult brainwashes him and conditions his thinking to work the way the cult wants it to work. What you see is what you get. That's the way the cult operates.

You had a natural reaction, namely being totally pissed off and upset. But there are other means of dealing with this stuff.

Holding a grudge against a person or the cult is like taking poison and waiting for the person (or cult) to die or disappear. That is not likely to happen. Meanwhile the poison is causing you great grief.

I like the Serenity Prayer:

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

--Reinhold Niebuhr

Maybe you can change the way your husband thinks and acts, but maybe not. In trying to do that you will be working against the cult, not just your husband. Good luck if you choose to try to do that.

I would put up one generic FB post replying, "Thanks for your kind thoughts, everyone! Yes, *name* is a truly wonderful guy. I'm glad that you enjoyed his talk." Then I would post completely inane, non-church things two or three times a day to drive the members' posts off the board. Tell what you had for lunch, tell about a shopping trip, or whatever. Just drivel.

Regarding JS denying polygamy -- you can add to the list his order to the destroy the printing presses of the Nauvoo Expositor because the newspaper exposed his polygamy to the community at large.

I also hate that he married other men's wives, in at least one case doing so after sending the woman's husband off on a mission. How nice for JS! (not)

http://wivesofjosephsmith.org/

BTW, you are safe here. Feel free to vent. Just be careful of giving too many identifying details.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2011 12:12PM by summer.

At the very least, I would just calmly ask him why he didn't even tell you he was giving the talk. It's a little strange that he wouldn't even have told you about it.

Is you husband being supportive of your decision to leave mormonism ?

Isn't it a two way street ?

your feelings with your husband, and keep it low key.

I have a suggestion that may seem strange right now. When you can be calm and no longer angry,take a deep breath and thank him for his talk and being supportive of your marriage. Tell him you read very complimentary comments about it on FB.

The idea of this suggestion is to turn it around from an angry, hurt conflict to a support of both of you regardless of your personal religious beliefs.

I have a believing husband. I have found, in my case, the best way to deal with it is not to make it an issue. He has a right to believe in Mormonism, and I have a right to my beliefs which are different.

I rarely talk about my non-belief. I don't give off any vibes that are going to cause conflict in our 47 year marriage. It's just not worth it.

I have made it a point to not take his belief personally. Most of the time, that works! :-) I didn't start off that way, well over 10 years ago, but I found out that anything less than that was detrimental to our marriage and family.
After all, I understand why he is a BIC, generational believer and why it's important to him. It was for me at one time also. The last thing I want is for him to think I have rejected him because I rejected his religion. I know how sensitive Mormons are to this issue, so I want to avoid it.

My hope is that you can negotiate a new relationship in your marriage and family that is beneficial to both of you and respects both of your rights to your beliefs.

@Dave--that is a good question. I would like to say I am completely okay with him remaining in Mormonism, but if I were being truthful, I would hope that he would see it for what it really is. I think it un-nerves me because of my children. If they continue with the supposed path--I will not be able to be at their weddings. This is the only faith that I believe excludes people from viewing. I have been attending another church, the kids can go with me if they want. If they choose to continue on their own, knowing all sides, I will accept their decision. But I know they are not getting the whole story on the history of the church.

Payback is HELL--my parents could not be there for my wedding and a ring ceremony was out of question.
Wish it was not so complicated.

@SusieQ--I will consider your advice. It would be easier if other people would leave me alone. The several times a week phone calls to my husband from TBM's checking in, seeing how we are doing, baked goods being delivered, etc. It is just overwhelming--

I am really scared because I do not want to lose my husband (although I hear that he will be able to choose a new wife in the eternities, if he makes it to the celestial kingdom because I will obviously not be there).

tiptoes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @SusieQ--I will consider your advice. It would be
> easier if other people would leave me alone. The
> several times a week phone calls to my husband
> from TBM's checking in, seeing how we are doing,
> baked goods being delivered, etc. It is just
> overwhelming--

OH MY! That's over the top meddling. maybe you can find a way to shut some of it down. Don't take the calls, or tell everyone the same thing: pass this along, we are fine, do not call or send baked goods. We throw them out when left on the porch as the attract ants (or some other good story!).
>
> I am really scared because I do not want to lose
> my husband (although I hear that he will be able
> to choose a new wife in the eternities, if he
> makes it to the celestial kingdom because I will
> obviously not be there).


My view is that the best way to save the marriage is to secure the relationship and make it more important than anything else and play down the Mormon teachings, mostly by ignoring them, not responding to them, etc.

My view is that the idea of a new celestial wife for hubby would be good fodder for a joke..... Not to worry, honey, when we are done on this earth, you get a replacement, have you put in your order yet...!

Using a little humor, for me, anyhow, has been a life saver.
If I can get hubby to laugh, I've succeeded in making his life fun and happy which is exactly what I want in my life. When he is happy, I'm happy, and visa versa.

Probably the hardest thing to do throughout a long marriage is to love the spouse exactly the way they are. Don't try to change them, it's not possible anyhow. We cannot change other people, only they can do that, on their own.

My best wishes to you that you can find a way to navigate these differences.

Have you thought about the possibility that your husband thought his talk would upset you or make you feel guilty and he wanted to avoid that?

If he was assigned this topic(he probably did not choose to talk about marriage) with the intent to make the both of you feel bad and pressure you to come back to church, maybe he wanted to spare you. Maybe he really is being a good guy. Just something to think about.

The Mormons are masters of manipulation. They would love nothing more than to drive a wedge between the two of you so you will divorce and he can remarry a TBM. I really believe that. Don't let that happen. :)

Your marriage can absolutely survive and thrive during and after you leave the church. The main issue is respect. I'm a little paranoid and insecure (and always have been) of people talking bad about me behind my back. The thought of my husband joining in or encouraging this behavior would devastate me. He is very loyal and defensive of me. When his parents gave him crap about me leaving the church he stuck up for me and my beliefs.

I'm sure your dh is a great guy. I'm sure he's devastated that the woman he thought was his eternal companion wants no part of living in his celestial harem. BUT, you need to be able to trust that he is being loyal to you. This whole episode pisses me off. Fuck the church!!! It's NOT about family!!!

You should be angry. Mormons love to meddle into others' business. They should all be ashamed. And the funeral you spoke of is also something they should be ashamed of. How terible for the children. Do your four children question you or accept your choice. Maybe they are too young. Anyhow, I hope it all works out. But be done with the lovebombers. Make them know that it won't work and they need to spend their time elsewhere. Good luck with hubby. I really think he should have told you.

tiptoes, we are kindred spirits!
I too have 4 kids, a TBM hubby, only about 2 people I can talk about this type of thing with, etc. Anyway, as long as you don't give out too many identifying details, you don't need to worry about your identity here... this is a great board and pretty much my sole support group right now, lol.

You are the second person who has said that I need to watch what I post. So the police will be spying on me?

IMO the only thing to worry about is if you don't want your family to know what you post here. I don't think you have a thing to worry about with TSCC, but sometimes TBMs come here trying to re-convert us, and if your family is among those types they might be upset to see you posting about them or about your disbelief if you give enough details that they can identify you. If you don't care what your family sees, then you have no worries at all.

tiptoes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are the second person who has said that I need
> to watch what I post. So the police will be
> spying on me?

There are always a few LDS nosy spies.I have evidence there are people who read my comments that are LDS as they say things to me that give themselves away, even though they don't realize it.

In addition, there are friends and relatives that may recognize you or think they do, and are in the same boat.
I have had that happen also.

We just never know.

At this point, I don't have any concerns about who may be reading my comments.
If they agree, or accept my position, fine. If not, that's fine also.
They have no power to disturb my life unless I allow it, and I don't.

Thanks for all your support...witnessed a "troll" on another thread earlier...WOW! I just do not get some people.

Remember that Mormons misrepresent and cause confusion. You're really not ever going to know for sure how this whole thing started. You don't know if your husband meant to give his talk quietly and not say anything to others about you and whether the intrusive women of the ward started questioning him and his comments may have been innocent enough trying to avoid the discomfort.

These people are trying to align themselves with him (not he with them, they with him) as true believers in support of his difficult situation (sarcasm here) that he doesn't seem to be asking for. Don't let them confuse the two of you about whose intimate with who... I would not respond to those people and not approach your husband as though he betrayed you in any way. Susie Q has good ideas--secure your relationship. Make it stronger, more intimate, let go of conflict MORE THAN EVER BEFORE, be immune to the women of facebook, ignore them, don't respond.

Men are especially unmoved by these kinds of efforts by these women. Most men see that kind of behavior as strange. He's probably feeling awkward about it. Give it no attention.

I would like to echo the sentiments of the other posters, I feel for you, all the craziness you are dealing with in this situation. I recently left the church as well, and it's been like a long roller-coaster ride of emotional highs and lows, with the lows more prevalent than the highs. More than anything else, I admire your courage, as I know how much it requires to choose honesty and authenticity over comfort. Please be assured that you are perfect in this moment and have chosen to be free, a path that is likely to be a difficult one, yet ultimately lead to higher consciousness and greater peace and integrity.