That there are no educated people on this board. Also there are no person's debt held important positions in the church. I want to start of by indicating I have one master's degree, one B.S. degree, one year of law school, and 28 post graduate credits. I'm a BYU graduate, four years seminary student, served in the Elders quorm times three, an executive secretary in a state presidency. I was also a temple worker in Los Angeles for almost two years. I've taught seminary for short time. I've been married in the top three times,Manti, Washington, DC, and the salt lake temple. Some of my kids have served missions. Two graduated from BYU. My oldest son has an MBA. One of my daughters it is a certified public accountant. Two of my boys of their own businesses. One of my girls owns her own business. One of my daughters is married to a very prominent Atty. in Dallas Texas. One of my sons just returned from a mission in Las Vegas. One daughter owns a mortgage company. One is a court reporter, and one is a marathon runner with wards. I was married to one return missionary and my current wife is it we returnded missionary. I thought the Elders quorm four years. I was stake dance director and ward dance director in severl wards. I taught Latin American dance at Brigham young university for years. ETC.

I feel that I am somewhat qualified to indicate I know a lot and experienced a lot and have a reasonable education to decide to resign from a cult. Anyone else feel they are qualified?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2011 02:23PM by get her done.

I am justified in my decision. And don't feel I need a high education to make this conclusion. Facts, unchangeable cold hard facts are good for me. Something I could never get in TSCC.

Wait a minute.

I thought the educated man was an ememy of god.

You gain a testimony by bearing it, right?

How much education does it take to wield a toilet brush?

*chuckles*

LOL

My graduate work was, I think, not important when it came to seeing through the morg BS (although it did drive me to find the data). And I suppose grad work does, by definition, make someone one of the "intellectuals" that BKP has warned the morgbots against.

Let's see, Joseph Smith laughs at the idea that you need to have a divinity degree to be a preacher.

Now his followers are saying you need post-graduate degrees to discuss problems in Mormonism?

Hmmmmmm.

I believe that get her done's high education and life experience isn't reflected by his grammar. ;)

It's not a high education or list of degrees and accomplishments that empowers a person to determine whether the LDS Church is really The One True Church in the Cosmos or a manmade cult which benefits a few opportunistic people and uses bait-switch-fear-hope-punishment-rewards tactics to maintain obedience among its power base.

Perhaps these characteristics help a person decide:
1. a love for the Truth. Jesus once taught that the truth shall set us free. Those words are wise no matter to which religion or lack of religion a person subscribes.
2. a commitment to the rewards/punishments for following the Truth.

3. a more consistent, logical approach to determining truth.
* If a person pre-commits to an idea, meaning if they have a foundational bias, then that will certainly obscure the truth of a subject. The tapir should pull the chariot. The tapir should not be pushed by the chariot (unless the tapir is the meat on the menu being dragged around on a wheel-less meat wagon as an item for human consumption....)(hey, that's funny right there, I don't care who ya are).
* If a person uses ad-hoc (for this purpose) and special-pleading reasoning to get around difficult intellectual struggles then they're not getting closer to the truth, they're providing reasons to keep themselves inside the safety of the group.
* If a person uses one set of rules to determine truth with those of competitive ideologies but another with themselves they aren't being consistent with themselves.
* If a person handles struggles with their faith by avoidance and setting the issues on the proverbial 'shelf' that person irrationally puts themselves in danger IF they were to ever 'get their house in order' and stop hoarding unresolved foundational-challenging problems. IF the person never addresses those things then they've never really allowed their preconceived notions to be challenged and their conclusions are not necessarily trustworthy (I do recognize that it's totally possible to reach the correct conclusion in a completely illogical manner, but I do not believe that the ends justify the means).

I could ramble on for hours....All these things lead to cognitive dissonance -- a house divided cannot stand. Eventually part of that psychological edifice will crumble. And there will unfortunately be collateral damage among our interpersonal relationships when it happens. The best way to avoid the breakdown is to follow Jesus' advice -- don't build on a sandy foundation. Mormonism IS a sandy foundation. There's no other logical conclusion to come to.
* The bottom layer of the supposed "first vision" is inconsistent between all the different versions should be a red flag. Which Judge and Jury would believe a witness who couldn't keep his story straight? A corrupt one, perhaps, but not a rational, reliable one.
* The seemingly self-serving nature of The Prophet Joseph Smith sending husbands off on missions to far-away lands and then espousing the already espoused spouses (say that 3 times fast!) should be a red flag (my g-g-g-g-something grandmothers are in that mix so I have a personal reason to get it straightened out).
* The way The Prophet Joseph Smith conveniently has revelations that make him wealthy (Nauvoo Mansion should be a red flag.
* The way the Book of Mormon obviously has many plagiarized chapters from the King James Bible with its errors intact should be a red flag.
* The way The Prophet Joseph Smith used the scrolls from the Book of the Dead and pretended to regenerated 'the Book of Abraham written by his own hand on papyrus'. If it looks like bait & switch then it probably is. Nobody should trust the person or group who promotes it as "full blown revelation" or insists that there was a second set of scrolls on the grassy knoll. Having the Book of Abraham sitting in the middle of the breathing permit of Hor is like finding the Book of Leviticus smashed between two full nude photos in this month's copy of "Big'uns" or on someone's master's thesis on the Piezoelectric Effect -- it just does not belong.
* The way The Prophet Joseph Smith used the growth of Mormonism to make himself a powerful ruler over anyone willing to believe him. Prophet, Seer, Revelator, Presidential candidate, Mayor, Lt. General and last but not least President, King of the Kingdom of God on the Earth. His motivations for the growth of Mormonism were clearly joined together by how it made him someone rich, powerful, influential and attractive to the better half of the species. How is that any different than Atilla the Hun, Gengis Khan or any number of tyrants throughout the ages?

So in the case that your house was not already built your land survey team would have cute little flags scattered all over your property. But in the case of so many of us, the construction crews came in years before and pressured us into getting that house up! It's difficult and painful to check the land underneath the house when it's been there for so long. Why did my General Contractor insist when I was eight years old that I had sufficient mental faculties to put down my house? If I could do it over again I'd keep myself uncommitted to building that building until I really knew that the foundation was solid. The survey would not be the General Contractor's brother or close personal friend. It would and should be someone unrelated without interest as to whether the GC gets his money. That's the only way I'd know that there would be no collusion.

Somewhere in here I hope I answered your question.

I think I remember get her done writing that he used a speech to text program.
The program doesn't catch everything, so you are going to get creative text, :)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2011 03:19PM by nomilk.

I agree

I do use as each machine because my spelling is so bad. It is a learning disability that had to do with my whole life. Many times the microphone doesn't have the vocabulary needed to express myself. Sorry, for the misspellings. Doing the best I can.

I am and the programs are getting more sophisticated yearly. However this program automatically anticipates from previous sentence combinations what to write. It certainly gets better year by year but there are many words values that are not in the vocabulary of the microphone and I have to spell them and that's a disaster.

Seriously... Just seeing that "debt held" instead of "that held" and "thought" instead of taught... No biggie now; thanks for sharing that "get her". . .

Over fifty years living among the Mormons in Utah, watching the delusional stuff that passes for political rhetoric here, a BA and 40-odd grad hours in two fields...

And close relationships with several PhD's, some outstanding historians... And some others who are equally enlightened... Thing is, we may degree on the minutiae, and even how to address this stuff, but there's a lot of consensual overlap that the church is a fraud...

Yeah, I feel qualified...

Get her done, there are days when I can't understand you, and there are days when I can completely understand you.

This makes perfect sense to me, and I'm glad that someone pointed it out. With the voice recognition, certain words/sentences will be "better translated" than others.

Good to know, and I will keep it in mind for the future.

Also, I have a BS degree and a MS degree in "real subjects."

I have been told that I have a PhD in "riffology" as well because of my guitar skills.

I accept that honorary degree, but would wish that employers would acknowledge it as well.

I guess I have not expressed the purpose of my post. I was trying to get persons with education to come forth to prove my wife wrong. I had no intentions of discounting other intellligent persons that have left the morg and do not have formal degrees. Many times commmon sense is a better asset to have then formal degrees. Sorry if I offened any one. IT was not my intent.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2011 02:46PM by get her done.

Your wife is the one that may have offended people here....including you if you really look at it..

Also...since being "offended" is not considered a real/true feeling with mormons (though they offend easily)...

Being offended IS a real emotion that is valid for people to feel.

If you're around a group of people (say a mormon church) and they CONSTANTLY offend you..you have the RIGHT to not be offended by them..meaning you don't have to hang around them ...Some people just don't get that part..

JESUS.

Please write decent English or refrain from telling posters here they are not edumacated.

We resemble such remarks.

Decent and English certainly is important. Again I apologize for my spellings. I'm always amazed at the persons who focus on my spelling rather than the topic of the post. I certainly won't mention anything about education again, it seems to be a sore point with many posters and it is never my intent to cause stress, problems, or to make anyone feel poorly. That is not the intent of this board or myself, therefore I apologize again.

I try to read the context and still end up scratching my head in confusion. You can read, correct? If you're a lawyer, I should jolly well hope so! So please read through your entries, aloud (or out loud), and see if they make sense, before clicking on post message.

If you're so all-fired erudite, I shouldn't have to point this out.

I am not a lawyer. I'd never even taken the bar exam. My expertise is managing residential treatment facilities for emotionly disturbed children. I'm sorry if I ever left the impression that was internally, I am not. Then confusion may come from the comments that I am representing a person in immigration court. The most clearly states that immigration administrative hearings are allowed to a link comment people as representatives of the accused. The judge has appointed me. I do not have to be an Atty. To represent this person.

I know AoG's impressive credentials, and her picking up on that one speaks volumes...

A little compassion and effort would work wonders to see what "get her done" is trying to say...

Thanks cabbie.... When the lurkers see us fight amoung ourselves I think it leaves an impression that is not true. We have diverse personalities, and life experiences, we also can be very strongly opions and being out of the morg we are able to express ourselves.

Jesus didn't have a degree, and he didn't need the LDS church or any other church for that matter.
I have little to be proud of in this world with regard to sophistication, schooling or achievements. All I had was an open mind. And I opened my eyes one day and looked around me carefully in sacrament meeting. I did that all morning as I went from Sunday School class to Relief Society. I saw a dead place that was not worth my while. I already read through all the manuals and already knew all the information that was simply being rehashed, and it was dull and pointless to me. It occurred to me that Joseph Smith was unnecessary to Christianity and knew enough to dislike him on a personal level. I opened my eyes to the black binder in RS being passed around with tasks in there that meant nothing to anyone. All of a sudden, it all seemed pointless and stupid. More importantly, it seemed unkind.

My husband thinks I'm an idiot for leaving the church and that it all makes common sense. I find that unkind as well.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2011 03:13PM by suckafoo.

Back to original topic, I am a college graduate. Two bachelors and working on my CPA.

I think education is a factor, but the ability to think CRITICALLY and the ability to not let your personal biases prevent you from being open-minded enough to learn things that might be critical of your preconceived notions is huge in getting out of Mormonism.

BA BYU, MA George Washington, MLIS McGill

Remind her how TSCC CONSTANTLY points out the fact that the founder of Mormonis was, but a poor, uneducated boy from the backwoods.

And Jesus Christ, the morg claims at the head of her church was but a carpenter who hung out with the lower rung of Society and who despised the religious 'know-it-all's'

There isn't a thing wrong with a good education. However, a 'certificate on the wall' doesn't make someone a better person than the next.

When I first questioned the church I constantly thought "But there are so many smart and educated ppl in the church", but soon concluded that education doesn't prevent foolishness.

I have a BA and a Master's Degree, from the UofU.
But, as has been expressed in this thread so eloquently before, all it takes is an open mind, and a brain to figure it out. An internet connection helps, too.

Very true.

I have a PhD from the School of Hard Knocks and am currently working on another at Slacker University.

Other degrees include a B.A., M.A., and am working on a B.S.

But seriously, those are just calling cards, one can be self-educated and more aware than any PhD, I respect critical thinking skills above any education, although that's often how you get them. And experience to me is another form of education and very valid. Having an open mind helps, too, and not being afraid to not be politically correct, to think for yourself.

I remember being told in Seminary that the Mormon church is the only one where the more people get educated, the more they believe in it. That may be where she is getting this.

I am working on my Bachelor's degree, so I am not highly educated, but I think that education and raw intelligence are not good indicators of who will leave the church and who will stay. I think it has more to do specifically with critical thinking skills.

So, have you been sealed to 3 women??? It took you that long to realize this is a cult? Who paid for all your kids education??? What kind of work do you
do???

Uhhh...WTF???

I mean....less educated people (less or no college) aren't smart enough to work their way out of the mormon church?? Only the smart ones stay?? Smart ones thinking that the earth is 6000yrs old and that good mormon men become gods and good mormon women become baby-making machines for the mormon men?? He she thinks you and other here are dumb??

Hate tell tell you but she is slamming you as much as the "lack" of education on this board..

I don't think education has a lot to do with it.

Read Michael Shermer's "Why smart people believe weird things".

Smart people are good at rationalizing their involvement in the cult, and being analytical of others religions. They fail to use that intellect on their own choices. Maybe they're too proud to admit they made a mistake? Smart people don't make mistakes, right?