I'd appreciate some advice from anyone that cares to comment. Have any other exmo fathers faced a similar circumstance, with dignity and some measure of success, where the church pulls their kid in a direction that is so typical of the morg?

Here's what happening: I'm not sure how to act/react to the scenario of my sons next stage of advancement in the mormon priesthood. I no longer adhere to mormon teachings and have tried to raise my two children (shared custody with a TBM mother) to be free thinking. Their mother (always w/ weekend custody) has always taken the kids to church. My son is turning 16 soon and, as most of my family is TBM, everyone is excited to see him advance in the priesthood.

Somehow, the thought of attending his ordination (what little I'm allowed to attend) seems like complicity on my part, as if I approve... and I don't.

My son seems to be "going with the flow" to keep peace with his mother by going to church and acting faithful. It is his life and choice. I'm going to reassure him that I support him as my son, as a human being with free will; that he will loose nothing by choosing not to be ordained; that my love for him is unconditional, even if he dives deeper into the cool clear waters mormon purity (waters that I know will provide an illusion of comfort while they slowly/quietly drain the light from ones' soul).

Remembering when I was that age, it will be touchy because I recall not really appreciating or giving weight to what my parents told me (I thought my parents were annoying, at best). So, I don't want to come off as preachy or a heavy handed lecturer. Any suggestions on how to handle this event in my sons life? Your comments are much appreciated -Thank you.

Wow....that is a hard one. But being female I would just say the things you did. You will always love him unconditionally. Ask him if he ever does things just to appease the MOM? Ask him if he is anxious to be an adult at 18 and make his own choices? Things like that give you an incite without telling him what YOU obviusly think is best for him. He may open up a bit if the conversation goes like that.

Tie in your own feelings about your parents at that time in your life. Were you dismissing both your Mom and Dad's opinions then? Was one more pushy than the other? You could speak on how you don't want to be pushy about your opinions and won't.Just be sure that you throw in this fact- no one should make you feel like you have to do something. You only do it if YOU choose to. It is important that he realize forcing things on others is often something you feel you must do, but regret and wish you hadn't later on in life. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

here is my post from another Board - this subject seems to come up alot!



When we were TBM our oldest hated church and did not want to go under any circumstances. We told her that she was a kid until she was eighteen and subject to adults' judgment like it or not. She was REQUIRED to go to Sunday services with her family, and we emphasized that this was more about supporting her family and respecting her parents than about requiring her belief. It made US happy for her to go and she should go FOR THAT REASON ALONE.

Once we were out, we had the reverse dilemma somewhat with our youngest, who was still more of a TBM.

We told him that despite our best intentions and efforts as parents and despite our best thinking, we had been misled. The church was false, and worse, it was a damaging cultish organization AND WE COULD PROVE IT.

We told him that we were merely sincere people who loved their kids trying to do the best for their children but we were not above being misled, mistaken or just plain wrong.

We told him that we believed that he was benefited from parents that were willing to challenge their assumptions, and we could only go forward with the best evidence and judgment we could muster.

We told him that now that we had proven to ourselves the risks and deception of TSCC, we would absolutely FORBID him from attending until he was eighteen. We said we would no more allow him to go to a cult church than we would allow him to go to a strip club or meth rave.

We mourned with him about the social consequences and the pain of losing a cherished worldview and we and made sure that we did not demonize the people. We encouraged him to keep up his friendships, we kept inviting his friends with us on trips or other outings, we treated his friends just the same as before with no weirdness, and we offered no "proselyting" to TBM friends (unless they asked--they didn't).

Absent issues with a believing spouse or a divorce settlement agreement that must be managed, we would not allow our minor kids to go to a cult church, period. Its more about supporting the family and respecting parents than about requiring their unbelief. Would you let your believing child attend the Church of Scientology?

Your kid is now approaching a time when it is more appropriate to begin shifting towards a more adult relationship to the degree it is possible. I think since he is getting 24/7 "testimony" bombs from his mother and from the cult, it is completely reasonable to tell him that he is now old enough that you can bear YOUR testimony to him as well. You can explain the "kid-in-the-middle" dilemma with it all, believe me he knows it already and can handle it I'm guessing. You can tell him that parents love their kids and want to lead them in the ways of truth, and so you are no different -- then lay it out . . YOUR testimony of the facts.

The problem is that mormonism is all dangerous BS and because of how the cult has such a stranglehold on our lives and families, it is often difficult to conform our behavior with this fact especially in mixed families; but what else can we do??

Kids who try to ride the fence are trapped in double messaging, split loyalties and confusion. Parents say TSCC is false and are not willing to go themselves or forthrightly challenge TSCC, but "respect" the choices of children and more or less endorse those choices by saying "well, its OK for you to go if you want" so that you can go and believe false things??? WTF!

Remember, all the kid will hear at church is condemnation of you, your parenting, your choices, and your judgment -- confirmed tacitly I'm sure by the TBMs around him. TSCC will HAPPILY dispense with you permanently if it can without any concern. Would it really be unreasonable for a young kid to conclude that YOU are the outlier, and that the church is true after all?

It doesn't seem surprising at all that a kid would have some trouble with a double-messaged challenge to the only world view they have ever known. How can they NOT have problems with it when their world view is not challenged or shown to be false, when the parents are slinking around concealing their true opinion from people (not just the kid), or when parents are even openly lying to others about their belief?

It seems like this is an impossible position for a kid to be in, and leads to confusion and insecurity. IMO a kid is not equipped to make judgments about this stuff and is helpless against a dangerous cult only concerned for its own interests.

Don't you know that every week they are going to hear about how god is displeased with people who break the sabbath, who drink, who look at the Internet and read anti-lds material, who don't do the family prayer thing, etc, etc. THAT'S YOU!

Every week the cult will try to seduce them into the illusion of seeing all the "happy" families in the cult, and dishonestly mislead them to conclude that THEIR family (the one they live in everyday) is not happy like others because of your disobedience and slothfulness. If a mormon leader is convinced you are an obstacle to your kids' swallowing the kool-aid they will undermine you for your kids' sake!

Every day kids remain attached to the cult is a day they have lost in reforming a healthy evidence-based world view and in discovering their own inate, non-cult-dependent goodness and ethics. I believe kids CAN understand the difference between lies and truth.

I recognize that there are many factors at play here and precious innocent feelings at stake, and that each situation is difficult, so I recognize my rant here as a sweeping generalization.

HOWEVER, to use an analogy, I have had to gut a skunk before and I can say that there is no way to gut a skunk without getting the stink on you.

Mormonism is a dangerous cult. It is false. It deserves no respect or accommodation, though its helpless victims deserve kindness and compassion.

As I have learned (often from the many wise people here at RFM): The PEOPLE in the church are true, but TSCC is false and damaging. We were once some of those people; innocently misled and deluded, spiritually abusing our kids and judging the world, arrogant, self-righteous, and SURE OF OURSELVES.

Your short-term pain from confronting some freaked out TBM folks will pale against the pain of watching the cult swallow your children (and maybe your grandchildren once they marry TBM spouses), paralyze their minds and lead them lemming-like off the cliff of soul-murdering insanity.

You can still love your kid unconditionally and all that. But going with the flow will inevitably see that flow slowly twist into the flushing of his personhood.