I just got an invitation to a girls night which will consist of TBM women from the ward. This isn't a church sponsered thing. Just some momos going out to dinner.

Anyway, I have it on good authority that the purpose of this girls night is to fellowship me and make me feel loved and included, and hopefully get me back to church.

UGH!

Why does there always have to be some agenda? Why can't we just go to dinner and just enjoy eachothers company? This is why I can't have TBM friends. One way or another it always revolves around the CHURCH.

And obviously they feel as if I was offended which bugs me to no end. Can they really not imagine people leave for legitimate reasons?

I just want to say, look, stop trying to get me back to church. I will never go back no matter what you do. Because it isn't you that. Is the problem. The problem is the CHURCH.

I hate that.. .today I am going to the UTAH vs BYU rugby game with exmos and nevermos and I am gonna have fun! GO UTAH!

Are you gonna go? It would be interesting to see what would happen to the invitation if you said to them, "Look, I'd love to hang out with you girls, but you'd better know ahead of time that I'm not coming back to church, and I'm not ever going back."

There are only excuses. If they thought there was a legitimate reason then they would leave. What leitimate reason could there ever be for givin up your eternal salvation? In their mind trying to get you to come back shows they are true friends. Fake friends could care less if you go to the telestial kingdom.

If it were me I'd go, and make sure to order wine or drinks with dinner. And talk about very good movies (R-rated) that I'd seen.

If it's just a group of friends spending time together enjoying each other's company there should be no problems ...

What makes me crazy about these scenarios is they act like they are doing us a favor to make us feel loved and included. Not only can they not comprehend that anyone would leave the church for legitimate reasons - they can't comprehend that anyone would consider it a lowering of their standards to hang out with Mormons. They act like they are bestowing their presence on us and we should feel loved and lucky.

When I left, my non-Mo friends were so nice to me and so happy for me that I got free of a cult and so forgiving that I had mostly ignored them for my cult activity. My Mormon friends never asked me what was wrong, judged me without knowing anything, bore false witness against me and snubbed me. Now, which of those two groups of people would someone who has high standards want to hang out with?

Wake up, church ladies. You act like high school cheerleaders who are graciously including the nerdy girl when actually, we feel like you are a bunch of smokers from the back parking lot, who are kissing up to us. We don't want to lower our standards to hang out with you and you definitely aren't doing us a favor, forcing us to tolerate you. But you Mormons will never get that.

"You act like high school cheerleaders who are graciously including the nerdy girl"

good comparison! That hit the nail on the head.

I should know. I used to be one. :)

So it makes perfect sense to them that a disbeliever would come back for the social connections.

We get people here who feel terribly isolated after leaving the church and who flirt with the idea of going back just so they have friends (or the illusion thereof).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2011 02:46PM by Stray Mutt.

Give them a chance. Not all Mormons have an ulterior agenda. You might find a good, unassigned friend. If it doesn't work out, at least you tried and don't have to go again.

mormon411 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Give them a chance. Not all Mormons have an
> ulterior agenda. You might find a good,
> unassigned friend. If it doesn't work out, at
> least you tried and don't have to go again.


I have found this to be true -- enough times that I can't paint all Mormon women with a broad brush.

Go and have fun and see how it goes.

Keep in mind these are the same ladies who did shun me when I left. I'm trying not to be cynical, but I was friends with them before. Once I left the church that was it with them. Maybe they're feeling guilty after all that lost sheep talk, I don't know.

I think I will go. And maybe order a glass of wine to make it interesting ;)

So I went to the dinner and I'm happy to report that I had a great time!

Only 2 weird moments were when they freely voiced their shock and disapproval at me being done having children since I only have 2 and when my VT told us her DH worked at one of the "dirty liberal" local papers.

Wow.

I just breathed through it. But overall it was good company and good conversation.

It's interesting being on the outside looking in. I'm so sensitive to the "Mormonspeak" and the sing songy cadence in their voices.

I'm think I'm healing and it's a great feeling. I thought for sure I was going into the lion's den going out with a bunch of TBM women, but I found myself laughing most of the night. The last time I went out with TBMs I left angry and frustrated and I no longer speak to those particular women.

I really hope this doesn't put a target on my back though. I'm cool with non-church related socializing but they will see how fast I can turn cold if I turn into a project.

I was out to dinner last night with a TBM friend,I resigned a couple of years ago,the stake president was at the same restaurant with his family celebrating his 40th,they came towards our table and my friend said quick swop your ginger beer and lime for my coke,she did'nt want them to see the coke,unbelievable,anyway we all shook hands and they said how nice it was to see me and I asked after them,all very civilised,only hoping it was'nt a put up job.

It would actually be interesting to see what would happen if you agreed to go and then had some conflict at the last minute keep you away. Do you think the dinner would still go forward without the "project"?? Hmmmmm?

That is bad. And if you would go back then you would be part of the group fellowshipping others like yourself. How fun would that be to an unbeliever? Stick to your guns. Go and let us know what you said.

I would go and get a lot of questions into the conversation.

-What do you know about JS and polygamy?
-Why do you think the church invests so much money?
-Does it ever bug you that women in church positions have to go to the men for everything, bottom line?
-Did you know that they found the papyrus that JS used to translate the BOA?

This probably isn't a smart idea, but that is what I would do.

go and have a fantastic time. Be yourself. If you want to talk about the church do it. If it turns out they can't handle the real you, they'll probably leave you alone.

When I left the church, we basically never heard from most of our friends again. But, we did remain friends with two couples after we left. We had been really close before-hand and they all knew about my struggles with my testimony as I was going through it. In fact, I found out about Joseph Smith's practice of 'polygamy' from one of the ladies (she was conducting research for a Master's project). That finding was what motivated me to really dig in to church history.

We had a few awkward conversations about me leaving, but as it turns out, we ended up being better friends because of it. Strangely, both of these couples enjoyed having close friendships with people who completely understood Mormonism but weren't a part of it as a matter of conscience. They could complain about church-related stuff, in a completely meaningful way, without worrying about destroying testimonies or being a bad example. In other words, they were able to be themselves with us in a way they were not with their church friends or with potential converts.

Also, because we had friends who were still "on the inside" whenever we were talked about in ward council-- we were a.) told about it, and 2.) defended. One of our friends basically told the ward council "They know where the church is and what it stands for. They're not shy people. They didn't leave because they weren't comfortable or because they were offended. They didn't leave because they just slowly drifted away and needed to be reminded that the church cares or that God loves them. They left because this isn't for them. If they decide to come back, they won't hesitate and they'll sit with us. There's absolutely no reason to bother them."

I was glad to know that we had a friend who could remind folks about appropriate boundaries. Not surprisingly, he was a convert and not raised in the church.

Anyway, because I had such a good experience with these Mormons, I'm a big fan of giving Mormon friendships a chance if you think there might be something real there. Of course, if there's not, don't waste your time.

Good luck :0)

When we were active:
Nobody in our ward ever came to our home except on church business. Nobody ever called our house except on church business. Except for a couple friends (who ditched us when we quit).

When we started skipping church:
We could get home to find 6 - 7 messages on the answering machine from the Relief Society.

We got lots of email notices about upcoming events, and people would mail us cards expressing their love for us.

When I was EQPrez, and in ther Bishopric, Our Ward Council meetings and PEC meetings usually consisted of plans such as you describe for getting people involved, or at least friendshipped in order for them to feel the spirit (I often wondered f they knew comraderie was a different "spirit") and we would council with the YM/YW on ways to get so-n-so to come to church - maybe invite them to a get together.

Bishop: "Oh and when you do have those 'spur of the moment' get togethers to invite goldenrule of someone else, be sure to submit your receipts so you can be reimbursed."

Oh- one more thing- Didja ever notice how when they love you or invite you or miss you, they always say "we" missed/love/invite...it is never "I".

"Oh and when you do have those 'spur of the moment' get togethers to invite goldenrule of someone else, be sure to submit your receipts so you can be reimbursed."

That just makes me sick! You can't just have a get together and invite someone to help them feel included, get to know them? Of course not! It's all about "fellowshipping" in other words pretend to be their friend until they convert or come back.

What?! You can get reimmbursed? No wonder my friend insisted she pay for me. That's messed up! But hey, at least I got a free meal on the church. It's the least they could do the bastards.

True haha free meals for all those years paying tithing :)

I don't know why my update posted up there. Weird.