I just did something naughty. My boyfriend's sister left her facebook logged in on my computer and before I logged out of it, I read some of her private inbox messages. (I know, I know.....totally wrong).

I wanted to know if there was anything in there about my boyfriend, because I have kind of suspected his family doesn't like him, and him leaving the church has only made it worse.

Well, I found a few messages between my boyfriend's sister and brother about my boyfriend. She called him "retarded," his brother called him "stupid," and they both agreed with a message my boyfriend's uncle sent to him which stated that my boyfriend was only going along with leaving the church and being an atheist because I was. It was all just to impress me.

The message the uncle wrote, that they agreed with, also told my boyfriend he was just feeling guilty, a sinner, just trying to hurt his family, etc. (NONE of which is true of course).

I thought this uncle was just crazy, but according to the messages in my boyfriend's sister's inbox, the rest of the family privately agrees with him.

I don't want these people as in-laws. I didn't like them before; now I just can't stand them!!

I KNOW how wrong it was to read the private messages; I really, really know I shouldn't have. But.....I did. And I don't know what to do. Do I pretend I didn't read them?

Is it wrong to think I really don't want these people in my life, and definitely not as potential future in-laws?

Trust your intuitions, listen to yourself. Sounds like a world of trouble, getting attached to these people in any way.

As for the espionage, I don't blame you one bit, it's called survival and knowing the truth, you need to know this stuff before, not after.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2011 11:47PM by lostinutah.

Well, regardless of whether reading those messages was wrong or not is unimportant. You did it, it's over with, so stop feeling guilty (if you do). I personally think that if someone leaves something accessible like that, it's not wrong if you come across it. But that's just me and some people might disagree with my opinion, it doesn't really matter.

Anywho, sorry about the tangent. You must understand that when you marry someone, you are marrying into the family. Their family becomes your family, whether you like that or not. Now I don't know if I would say it's a good idea to break off the relationship or not because of that fact. I guess maybe you could if you felt that you would be unable to deal with them as future family. It might benefit you to talk to the bf about this issue. Maybe bring up some of the stuff you read in the messages (without admitting what you did because he would probably be pissed) as possible thoughts his family MIGHT be having about his exit from the church. i.e. ask him "Do you think your family thinks I'm the reason you left the church? What if they do and you just don't know? I've heard stories of family reacting that way" etc etc. See how he feels about the dynamics between you and your family. After all, the important thing is your relationship with him, and he's got to feel that your relationship matters more than the opinions of his family. He's just got to take your side on this issue if things are going to work, because if he doesn't, you're in for quite a hell on earth, as personal stories of mine can attest to this.

So...to answer your question, no it's not wrong to not want these people in your life. The easiest way to get rid of that is to break up with the bf. BUT you probably won't do that. So my advice is to make sure that he values you above his family. Then you'll probably only have to deal with them some of the time, in small spurts. Hopefully, if your relationship has any chance.

Amy wrote:

"You must understand that when you marry someone, you are marrying into the family."

No you're not. You're marrying the person whose name is on the certificate along with yours. I've never seen a legal marriage certificate with more than two names on it.

Its not a package deal. You have no contractual agreement with your family and neither does your spouse.

Timothy

Its human nature that if someone uses your computer, you'd feel it's your personal space and be curious of what they did on it.

I do think you should tell your boyfriend. It's a good test of the intimacy between you, of his taking sides either with you or them (as it relates to understanding that you did what you did and he should not reveal it), and of your ability to talk to each other about the commitment between you. You may even get a glimpse of whether he has an expectation that he's only temporarily going inactive until he can bring you along. (Doesn't sound like it, but who knows.)

Just remember when bringing up someone's family be careful to say it gently because the natural tendency to protect or defend could interfere with your communication. But you need to tell him or you'll never know how conflicts of loyalty between his family and you will play out in the future. This is a really good test.

Obviously these people do not like you one bit. But do they know you? Have you given them a chance to KNOW you??? I would try that out before I gave up on them. Does your bf think they may grow to like you if given the opportunity. Of course they think he is stupid for not being active anymore. I think that is to be expected. It doesn't make it right....just normal for Mormons.

Personally, if he is being treated badly it may be best to separate from them for awhile and let a relationship rebuild if it is meant to be. And as someone else said it is imperative for you to find out if YOU are more important than his family. If you are not, then the future is not good for you with this bf.

It's so intesting to see this kind of thing. I know I'd be the one with the odd family in any relationship where someone might like me but not my family.

Should you and your boyfriend decide to tie the knot, you will sign a very legal and binding contract to that effect.

There is no contract between your potential mate and his family. Likewise, there is no contract between you and your family. Its not a "package" deal.

Marriage is kinship by contract to the exclusion of all others. Once the two of you commit, the two of you become "the family"

Screw the in-laws.

Timothy

The scriptures say we are to leave our parents and cleave unto our spouse.

But in reality, we still have to deal sometimes with family.

I have become closer to my MIL than my mom over the years. After my church court, it was MIL that I turned to for advise.

We have friends that have totally left both families. We find that very sad, but we have stayed very close to both families. Mine is a lot stricter TBM group, and I don't think most know I have resigned. DW has only one brother that has stayed in the church, and he drove me nuts even when I was TBM. But, we have learned to enjoy family gatherings.

Hope you can sort this all out.

I agree with those that stated you need to ensure BF is on your side. I couldn't do it without DW support.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2011 02:45PM by nomomoses.

Under no circumstances do you "have" to deal with your family. Again, there is no contractual agreement between anyone but you and your spouse.

If you choose to, that's another story. In the end, however, your allegiance in any and all situations or circumstances resides solely with your spouse, even if he or she is wrong.

Side with your family against your spouse and see how that works.

Timothy

Effective boundaries should resolve these type of issues. Both spouses need the courage and have a spine to put the marital relationship above all others. Since we're human we have to deal with the flaws, and that includes dealing with encroachments in a marital relationship. Sometimes one spouse will be complicit in the encroachments. Often, this and similar flaws aren't discovered until the marriage has already began.

In-laws and other family members are like TSCC when they get into everyone else's business.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2011 08:17AM by openeyes.

Of course, beloved spouse of thirty-two years and I have never been beholding to our laws or in-laws. They tried to encroach, but were immediately told to f**k-off.

That's a luxury that comes with the old "nary a borrower nor lender be" approach.

Our world is no where near perfect. We just make it as ideal as possible.

Might want to review your contracts, particularly the ones you signed with your parents and in-laws.

Timothy

Like the saying goes...You teach people how to treat you. Timothy, Congrats on the tenure of your marriage and not letting outsiders encroach upon it. It takes two to Tango...Best wishes.

I'm a divorced guy.

My question is what is the ability of your boyfriend to individuate from his family. Can he separate himself and his relationship with you from their opinions, feelings, desires, and demands. If so, good. If not, your relationship will be much harder. That is true whether the family is Mormon or not, although Mormon families often attempt to exert much more control over adult family members than non-Mormon families.

Now you know how they feel.

Be aware that it is extremely difficult to change someone's negative feelings upwards into positive feelings toward others.
That's why first impressions are so important.

If you marry this man, make sure you are living away from his family.

You can always have polite interaction with them - from a distance.
I would not visit and stay at their homes or vice versa.

..his family seems like a typical entrenched morgbot family, wherein they take it as a personal insult whenever an extended family member leaves the church. I guess it somehow disturbs their delusion of enternal bliss, and perhaps it negatively affects their supposed image and status in the church. Sounds like they have some underlying resentment toward you. I doubt this will get any better in the short run. They sound like jerks.

However, this could work for you and he, as long as he realizes that he must draw boundary lines between your relationship (i.e the two of you) and them in terms respectful behavior. Their behavior right now is disrespectful. If he did not stand up for himself on those e-mail exchanges, then I wonder how good he is at taking a stand and making boundary's? He can learn to do so though. He should have responded by counteracting the lables of "retard" and "stupid" by simple boundary drawing dialogue.

Just remember, marriage is a HUGE step, but it can be a wonderful step. It's nice to have a friendly extended family, but pragmattically speaking, the day in and day out of just plain old livin' is between you two - not them. If you got something good with him, then you could put up with his extended family during a few holiday's per year (i.e. really you'll split those anyway with your extended family).

Try living together for awhile (6 months to a year). See if it works. If you have solid intimacy, friendship, and committment together AND you are happy, then go for it.

PS I wouldn't tell him about the e-mail messages. Could back fire, and he could resent you for it. Bring it up another way. Some men resent women who spy on them.

Tell him the whole story of what you found and HOW you found it. Candor and openness will be the foundation of your intimacy. It's bad juju to conceal behaviors your're not proud of (i.e., mistakes) in order to avoid conflict. If your relationship can't take this amount of disagreement, then that's good information too. Be up front and deal with the blow back like an adult.

In a relationship, the things you admire in a person are easy to deal with. The things in a person that cause you discomfort are what need to be carefully considered.

Trust, in a relationship, is of the utmost importance.

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2011 01:21PM by Timothy.

It was just my opinion, and I knew I'd get disagreement with it. That's cool.

... I learned early on with Beloved that its better to come clean on even the most insignificant matters.

Keeps her happy and me out of the doghouse.

Timothy

NEWS FLASH**************
Never Mo families are screwed up too! It's just the nature of the "family beast" that some of them will like you and others will not. Everything he does that they disagree with will be because of you. Bought a Nissan instead of Toyota....your fault! Boxers instead of briefs,....your fault too! Doesn't come to a family picnic because of scheduling conflict, you some how caused the conflict. I don't care who you marry, anytime they do anything outside of the family norm, it will be your fault.

Now that you have the info, it is up to YOU how you process it. Do you really care if people this shallow like you? If they did like you what would it say about you? Timothy is right, you are commiting to him, and he is commiting to you, everyone else comes in 2nd place, after marriage. I deal with the nutcases in my TBM family, and keep them in their place, and she takes care of the crazies in her nevermo family. It won't be a problem unless you or he let it be one.

Been married to my beloved nevermo spouse for goin' on thirty-three years. Early on, TBM family tried to wedge itself between us (her family thinks I walk on water, so we never had a problem with them). Put 'em in their place right away. They didn't like it, but guess what? I didn't really give a s**t, so it didn't and still doesn't matter.

Nothing comes between us. No parent, no sibling, no religion, no employer, no government, no nuthin'. Again, marriage is kinship by contract to the exclusion of all others. View it any other way and I guarantee it won't last long.

I hate to be harsh about these matters, but it would do folks round these parts a lot of good to come to grips with the fact that the cult has no power and its followers are not entitled to be respected for their stupidity.

Here's a little poem to help folks remember:

They never get old,
They always seem new.
Those five little words,
Kiss my a** and F**k you!

Timothy

I have never laughed so hard in my life, then I did yesterday during that one thread. You owned that dude. Priceless and well done...

Timothy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hate to be harsh about these matters, but it
> would do folks round these parts a lot of good to
> come to grips with the fact that the cult has no
> power and its followers are not entitled to be
> respected for their stupidity.


Amen and amen. Let's all bow our heads and say YES!

What are they, five years old? *sigh*

I would take it one of two ways. If they can be there for you as a family in the big ways, I would overlook this behavior. If not, I'd put a lot of physical distance between you and them, and also limit your interactions with them.

There was no name-calling, so get your panties out of your crack and settle down.

And if there was, so what? Deal with it, doodoohead.

Essentially, you're offbase.

Timmy, you rock.

serena Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was no name-calling, so get your panties out
> of your crack and settle down.
>
> And if there was, so what? Deal with it,
> doodoohead.
>
> Essentially, you're offbase.

"Retarded," "stupid," and "doodoohead" all strike me as being name-calling. And for two of them, in reference to a supposedly loved relative, yet. I've spent years teaching young children, and this is immature playground behavior in my book. YMMV.

Name-calling other people (especially behind their backs) strikes me as being the behavior of the impotent and the powerless. My initial reaction to the OP's post was, really, is that the best that they've got? Because families can get a whole lot nastier than that if they've a mind to do it.

By overlook it, I meant look at the larger picture. The potential future in-laws might be a completely lost cause, or they might be capable of one day adjusting to the situation, and of pulling through for the couple when the going gets tough. IMO it's hard to say this early on (especially with them being so upset) and without knowing them.

And sure, I might be offbase. It's just one person's opinion. Sometimes I write my take on a situation, but like another board member's POV even better. The OP gets a wide variety of POV's from which to select.

Oh, and my panties were never in a wad this morning. :-)

Sorry to insert my experience, but I know no other way: I kind of test-drove my husband (horrible sounding) before we got married because of this, but not quite to this extent, so we lived together first, only 20 minute drive from his family.

His sister and brother were ok, never ever tried to interfere, and after 17 years, still don't, but the dad and mom especially made it clear they didn't like me. Well, my husband is not nearly as close to them as I am to my parents and family, so it hasn't been a major issue, just occasionally a small one. My son & I are his family, and we definitely come first.

Whose side is your boyfriend on? I think you should let him know about the facebook incident. It's best to be very honest with him, if he's important to you. The only thing I think couples shouldn't share is history with exes. That's more info than they should be saddled with.

No, you don't marry the family, but they'll always be in the background; they're his baggage. He's an adult now, I assume, and how much involvement there is is largely up to him. Does he still live with them?

He needs to know what you found out, if you want to build on your relationship with him. This is a good test for long range potential, although it could be painful and end badly.

However, honesty really is the best policy.

At least you know where you stand with those other people. Never, ever trust them as far as you can throw them.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Yes, this garbage certainly does happen with non-Mormons too! But when a cult is at the core of it, hoo boy, that's a whole nuther barrel of koolaid!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2011 12:23PM by serena.

I agree with Timothy and others. You can keep these people out of your lives. It is how you decide to handle them.

I have noticed (not always the case) that more often than not you end up closer to the wife's family than the husband's.

One thing to remember is--you could be a perfect little mormon girl and they might still not like you--HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. It did to me. When I basically told them to get lost (after trying to please them), they all LOVE me--the ex's family. They even asked me not to get a temple divorce just in case. HA HA HA HA They invite me to all family functions. In fact, they tell me they miss me all the time. I blow them off most of the time (and so does my ex).

AND I believe that if someone leaves their facebook OPEN ON YOUR COMPUTER--she may have either done it for a reason, but it is fair game. IT IS YOUR COMPUTER.

One of the reasons I'm not on facebook, etc., is because I don't want to know what my kids are posting. (They like to believe I smother them--no, they SMOTHER ME.) I feel their facebook stuff is none of my business--as well as where they live with friends, etc. BUT when my daughter left her journal ON MY BED ON TOP OF THE BOOK I WAS READING when she usually hides it, I knew she was wanting me to read it. Sure enough, she had a message she wanted me to read . . . .

I think she wanted you to read it and I would definitely be completely honest with your boyfriend about how you found this stuff out.

You read some messages that confirmed the family dynamics, which you all ready knew. Keep it to yourself. It's good information. They are showing their true colors, and protecting the family from those that leave the church (the tribe.) They were playing off of each other, which is typical. Nobody is going to try to fight "city hall," so to speak. My view? Let it go. It's just like minded people smarting off.

How serious is this boy friend relationship? If you marry him, you may be involved with the family on some level, depending on how close they live to you, how much time you spend with any of them. Now you know they are typical human beings; they talk behind your back and are two-faced.

Thanks for the advice everyone. I have been reading a lot about in-laws on different forums and websites, and there is one common theme:

"If your husband (or wife, or whatever) won't stand up for you to their family, your relationship will have serious problems. If your spouse doesn't realize that the two of you are a family, and that his childhood family is not his primary family and shouldn't be his priority, then you are in for a lot of trouble."

I haven't come to any conclusions yet, but I have definitely learned a lot about my boyfriend in the past few days.

Thanks again.

and confirmed by intercepting email messages would be about as hard to imagine, predict & confirm as Ozark hillbillies having taken pot shots at squirrels and that their dogs had howled at the moon.

MORmONS are two faced sniping back stabbers....IMAGINE THAT! The MORmON deal was started by a guy who thought nothing of stealing other mens wives by using BS like saying God demanded it. If ppl didnt go along he trashed their reputation.
SOMEHOW MORmON back stabbing snarkiness continues.

OK I am done except to say good luck.