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Posted by: deb 49 ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 06:02PM

Good afternoon!! I've been on this board app. 1 week.As most of you are aware, I came within a hair of being converted into the lds faith. (canceled twice since feb.) This board helped sway me into my decision so thanks much for all of the help you have given me, as well as the support. Coming so very close and meeting &/or hearing from the missionaries app. 5 times a week, there have been a couple of "remarks" that sounded NICE but have repetitively been used. The remarks are 1) "Is there anything you need me to do for you?" it has been used 5 times.,once by two different mishies, twice by the LE, and once by a member who had been @ my house w/elders app. 4-5 times. 2) "I/we are here for you. It's been used by each missionary. Also whenever asked that "repetitive" ? by the gentleman who is member of church he also stated "we've got to get you baptized" @ first, I thought all of the words were nice and sounded so caring, concerning, etc., but now realizing it's became so very repetitive. Are they scripted?? Just curious.

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Posted by: brigantia ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 06:08PM

straight out of the Utah script.

Briggy

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Posted by: luckychucky ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 06:13PM

It's something that is mostly scripted and halfsometines realy meant. Almost all LDS missionaries and hometeachers will ask questions along those lines almost every visit. Most people just say no thanks and they go thier seperate ways, its along the same lines of when you see an aquaintence and ask them how they are doing and they reply with "fine". The real test of how genuine they are is to say there is something they can help you with. One example would be to tell them you need someone to wash the upstairs windows because you are terrified of heights. Some will find a way to help and others will find an excuse.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2011 06:14PM by luckychucky.

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Posted by: deb 49 ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 06:57PM

having been laid off from work,(for 13 months) if I'm ever confronted w/this again I could say "I need a job" Everybody would probably run the other way, then

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Posted by: lillium ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 07:02PM

Perfect reply! Or if you need some plumbing fixed, or a ride somewhere, feel free to ask. Bet they'll drop out of sight pretty quickly.

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Posted by: 3X ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 06:39PM

He left the second part of the sentence unspoken:

"we've got to get you baptized - so I can feel secure in my own wacky beliefs."

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Posted by: deb 49 ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 06:46PM

yes, and during all of that "teaching,niceness, concern, etc., i've seen where a certain bom chapter, verse# etc. was used for me to read(it was suggested i read this)

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 06:46PM

used often. It's their "tribal" speak.
Like Christians often say: "have a blessed day" - Mormons have their common usage comments also.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2011 06:46PM by SusieQ#1.

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Posted by: serena ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 06:53PM

Not the same thing. Once again, though, the not-so-subtleties go right over your head, no hair movement.

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Posted by: lillium ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 07:17PM

I agree, it's very different. Read Robert B's note below, it becomes clear.

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Posted by: resipsaloquitur ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 07:00PM

I completely agree, SusieQ. Perfect analogy.

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Posted by: robertb ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 07:34PM

The remarks and the impulse to offer help are scripts created by repeatedly drumming in the message that every member should be a missionary and instruction on how to do it. I think they have become automatic.

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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 06:54PM

Notice how it is always 'we" and rarely ever "I" ?

Kinda makes ya wonder about the personal sincerity, no?

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Posted by: matt ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 06:55PM

Do they? Not heard that, here in England.

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Posted by: serena ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 06:58PM

I'd call it "I'm so holey" speak. It's supposed to make the speaker look good and pat themselves on the back simultaneously.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 07:00PM

matt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do they? Not heard that, here in England.

Yup. They sure do, especially in the South. I hear it here in what we call the "Bible belt of No. county" Southern CA! :-) Some leave that statement on their answering machine.

There are phrases and comments that are different in different areas, even shopping at Walmart! :-)

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 07:01PM

I heard this more in UT and from folks that came from UT. It's was very common in my experience in the LDS Church especially with the older generation of generational Mormons.

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Posted by: deb 49 ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 07:03PM

yes, susie(being here from MS) it is considered the "bible belt" here in deep south. Some people will state "Have a blessed day"

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Posted by: Jim Huston ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 07:00PM


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Posted by: Tauna ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 06:59PM

I suppose it's because they think they are speaking for God, Jesus, and the HG.

We had a new CES missionary call about my son taking seminary. At the end of the phone conversation, he said, "We sure love you!". I was speechless. I had never met him. I had only had a brief (5 minute) telephone conversation with him and he's saying "We love you"???? Weird.

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Posted by: deb 49 ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 07:00PM

It's been said to myself, "Is there anything you need me to do for you?" I guess when i began hearing it more than once and now 5 times(between 4 guys) it seemed almost "scripted". I've been told "I care" only once. But the i/we are here 4 u has been 3 times from 3 different mishies.

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Posted by: Jim Huston ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 07:05PM

It is very scripted. The idea is to get you to accept help or support so you "owe" them.

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Posted by: geneticerror ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 07:11PM

This is exactly the reason they 'offer' help. It's a very effective con game.

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Posted by: robertb ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 07:07PM

Professor Robert Cialdini of Arizona State University wrote Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion to prevent people from being unknowingly persuaded against their best interests. While the principles of influence Cialdini writes about are important in forming healthy relationships and social networks, unscrupulous salespeople, politicians, and religious leaders can (and do) use them as psychological weapons to manipulate us into making decisions that are contrary our best interests, sometimes with serious consequences.

In this context, Cialdini describes what he calls the “Weapons of Influence.” I have summarized them and added some brief commentary of my own about their application to Mormonism. Although each influencer is listed separately, they are often used in combination to increase their effectiveness.

Reciprocation

Reciprocation works by creating a sense of indebtedness. When someone does us a favor, even an unsolicited favor, we often feel an obligation to do something in return. The favor does not have to be tangible. Repayment is often out proportion to the value of the original favor. Skilled salespeople find some way of giving uninvited favors, tangible or intangible in order to create a sense of indebtedness. This creates a sense of indebtedness to the salesperson that makes it more likely you will buy the product. The principle of reciprocation, paired with liking, underlies Mormon fellowshipping attempts or “love-bombing.”

Commitment and Consistency

Once we take a stand about something or make a commitment, we experience internal and external pressure to maintain those commitments. On the plus side, this principle allows us to create stable relationships and social groups. Our employers like being able to count on us to do our jobs. We like counting on them to get a paycheck. People don’t like people who are unreliable and we don’t like to be thought of as unreliable.

When I was a missionary, and, later, an instructor at the Missionary Training Center, we used a “commitment pattern” to elicit commitments from investigators. It was found that people who committed early in the teaching process were more likely to follow through to baptism. As missionaries we could appeal to their commitment and sense of self-consistency to keep them moving along.

As members, Mormons are progressively committed to giving increasing amounts of time, energy, and money to the church program. Commitments are a central feature of the LDS temple endowment, culminating in The Law of Consecration, which commits the member to give or potentially give *everything* to the LDS Church.

Questioning or withdrawing from the commitments can be very painful for doubting members whose identify is built around the commitments they have made and who find themselves thinking, feeling, and acting in ways inconsistent with their former image of themselves as faithful Mormons.

Social Proof

Social proof means making decisions based on what other people think is correct. Most of the time it works well by saving us the time and effort it would take to work out every decision. It is fortunate, for example, that other drivers just go along with the traffic laws. The principle of social proof helps us to adapt to new situations and environments by encouraging us to observe what others are doing and emulate them.

At times social proof works against our interests. Sometimes the group is wrong. Sometimes social proof prevents us from seeing flaws or better ways of doing things. The Mormon Church relies heavily on social proof. When Gordon B. Hinckley says that the great majority of Mormon women in the church are satisfied with being left out of ecclesiastical decisions, implied those who aren’t happy are mistaken, he is using social proof. Social proof also underlies the publication of the church membership statistics.

In extreme cases, social proof in combination with commitment and consistency contributes to events like Jonestown and Heaven’s Gate.

Liking

We like to please people we know and like. We tend to like people who appear to have similar opinions, personality traits, and lifestyles as ourselves. We also like people who like us. The Mormon Church is very conscious about its image and has spent millions of dollars crafting that image and selling it to the public. The explicit dress and behavior codes for missionaries and BYU students and the less explicit, but nonetheless powerful dress and behavior codes for the Mormon membership, are in large part aimed at making Mormons appear likable. This concern about being liked led Gordon B. Hinckley to declare in a 1996 interview with Mike Wallace, “We are not weird.”

Authority

We are raised, for the most part, to respect authority and have grown up dealing with authorities, including parents, teachers, employers, law enforcement, etc. The appearance of authority can be enhanced by using symbols, citing other authorities, dressing like other authorities, and making sure others know about their experience and education. The goal of appealing to authority is to persuade your listener that you are in a position to know better than they and that they should follow your advice. The quintessential statement of Mormon authority comes from a ward teaching lesson from May 1945 and was repeated a month later in an official church publication: "When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done." Ward Teachers Message, Deseret News, Church Section p. 5, May 26, 1945, Improvement Era, June 1945.

Mormon leaders may find this statement and others like it useful for keeping the recalcitrant in line. However, Mormon apologists who recognize that such statements don’t play well outside of Provo deny the Mormon leadership means what it says. This denial is made in spite of similar statements made in official church settings and in Mormon scripture:

“The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty.” Doctrine & Covenants, Declaration 1

Fortunately, the religious authority of the Mormon leadership is based on our volunteering our belief. Once we withdraw our belief, their influence on us is significantly eroded.

Scarcity

Scarcity works on the principle that when something is difficult to get, it is perceived to be of more value. The item can be physically scarce or priced so high that it perceived to be of better quality than the same item at a lower cost.

In Mormonism, the scarcity principle applies to obtaining a temple recommend and “going to the temple.” Members who receive the temple ordinances are told they have received special blessings that are not available to every member, much less non-Mormons. The promotion of temple ordinances as sacred and special may leave members who find them silly and bizarre in a state of shock, confusion, and self-doubt.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 07:08PM

as missionaries to say and ask certain things. They are similar to the kinds of things home teachers and visiting teachers say in their visits.
They are available to actually "do" something FOR you. They will mow a lawn, or help with some project.
Elders Quorums, for instance, become, mini moving volunteers! :-) They are often called upon to help people pack and move in or out of houses in the ward area.

Yes, people will repeat certain phrases that are part of their lexicon. That is one reason I often say that Mormonism is best understood as a generational, cultural, religious tribe. These phrases and types of speech are continued in each generation to some extent. In my experience, and for myself, personally, I know I was honest and sincere. It's a bit of a culture shock, I think when not used to being around LDS folks and hearing how they communicate and what they talk about. It sure was for me, when I converted and moved to BYU Married Student Housing. Initially, I had to ask my husband to translate !

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Posted by: Greyfort ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 07:09PM

Everything about Mormonism equals sameness. You can go to a chapel 1,000 miles away, and it will look basically the same as the one you go to.

The guys will still all be wearing white shirts.

The pictures in the chapels will all be the same.

The lesson you're receiving in Sunday School is the same one someone else is hearing 5 States over.

Sameness and conformity.

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Posted by: deb 49 ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 07:18PM

tks. much for the info/article, Robert. This info hit the "Nail on the head"

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Posted by: WinksWinks nli ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 08:52PM

After 15 years of not attending mormon church once... the missionaries came to my door asking for me by my maiden name. I had told my hubby that they would be along eventually because my family always turns in my address.

They asked for me and dear hubs told them no one by that name lives here, because I go by my married name now, but they didn't need to know that.
They asked if he was sure, which creeped him out, and he told them to leave. He is a strapping 6 foot man, getting angry, and these spindly 19 year old boys only stepped back one foot and asked, "is there anything we can do for you?"
"Didn't you hear me? You can get off this porch and keep walking!"

What did they do?
Asked if any of our neighbors would like to hear their message!

So scripted a large angry man didn't even register!

They don't care what the answer is, just so long as they can get another word in.

They may not even be aware it is a script, because it means as much as "Hey, how ya doin?" You don't respond with a tale of woe when the expected answer is "Fine, thanks!"
You are expected to say no thanks, but if you do ask a favor, expect some teenage boys to be drafted to do your request, and it will be done halfassed, AND they will have you on the obligation hook.


It is not the mormon version of have a blessed day. That's just stupid.

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