Does anyone know if there are safe houses to help those who want to leave the church? It seems every week we get a message in here where someone is concerned about telling their parents the truth about their beliefs because they are afraid of being kicked out or cut off financially. I'm curious if there is a program that exists to help those who want to leave Mormonism feel they have a safe way out if they need it. A place where they can live, as well as assistance finding work if they need it. As well as the ability to survive while they get their feet under them.

UNless they are being abused (other than spiritually) it seems to me that anyone running a "safe house" could get into all kinds of trouble for harbouring minors without their parents permission. Maybe they could find a relative to live with instead - I know a young lady who moved in with her nevermo grnadmother, but she was actually over 18 at the time.

Under 18 - fake it and start planning carefully for maximum independence upon reaching 18.

I beg to differ. Spiritual about is probably the the most common aspect leading up to gay youth suicide. Spiritual abuse is as bad as any other form of abuse.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2010 05:51PM by MJ.

One can still get into legal trouble by harboring kids under 18. Spiritual abuse is terrible, but so is legal trouble...just sayin'.

Many that ran away from home or were taken from their home because of abuse.

There are many legal ways around the "harboring" issue.

Just in case you didn't know, there are laws that protect kids from abusive parents. I didn't "address the issue" because I thought it was common knowledge and obvious to anyone that has lived in the USA over the past 10 years that kids can leave or be taken from their homes over abuse. Guess I was wrong.

"Just sayin'"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2011 10:54AM by MJ.

It's obviously important to protect children, but unless you go through all legal means, you'll find yourself in hot water.

MJ, try not to be so fucking defensive. I leave the board for months, then see you are still so sensitive. Jeez...lol.

Shhezzzz.

Sorry, but there ARE ways around the "harboring" issue, yes, they require a legal process, but guess what, that is still a way around the the concept that "One can still get into legal trouble by harboring kids under 18."

Sorry, but the people that I have known that are legal experts in this field would never have made such a blanket statement as "One can still get into legal trouble by harboring kids under 18." because they know better. They KNOW that this is not always the case, they also know that one does NOT need to have taken the legal action BEFORE they take in the kid, as long as they can prove the kid was in imitate danger after the fact. The legal experts I know KNOW that there are all sorts of homes across the nation for "harboring" teen that are victims of abuses and there are all sorts of ways around the "harboring" issue and certainly would not need little ol' me to "address" the "harboring" issue for them.

So take your snotty "MJ, try not to be so fucking defensive." attack and read the part where I ADMITTED I WAS WRONG in my belief that people understood that there were LEGAL WAYS OF GETTING KIDS OUT OF ABUSIVE ENVIRONMENTS AND INTO SAFE HOUSES.

EXCUSE ME FOR TELLING THE TRUTH AND HURTING YOUR FEELINGS AND OFFENDING YOUR ALLEGED EXPERTISE IN THE PROCESS.

Get a grip.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2011 01:18PM by MJ.

My feelings aren't hurt MJ.

You have got to be one of the most overly-sensitive people on this board. I have seen your quick-to-injure or defensive reaction many times when people disagree with you. React how ever you want. Please have the last word.

How is telling the TRUTH being overly sensitive????????

Oh, and how come you have abandons the points being discussed and making this all about me? Why deflecting rather than just admit you are wrong? Are your arguments supporting the claims you make THAT WEAK?

"Please have the last word." Yeah, not surprised that you would not hang around after such rude and uncalled for behavior on your part.

At least I was man enough to apologize when I was wrong.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2011 12:17PM by MJ.

I used terms like "Just in case you didn't know" and "Guess I was wrong."

I fucking apologize for my error and I get back "MJ, try not to be so fucking defensive." Calling me defensive for APOLOGIZING? And you accuse ME of being defensive and having a bad attitude?

It is no wonder I don't have respect for so many on this board when I get accused of being defensive when I am APOLOGIZING. And so many other are equally as absurd in their unjust accusations against me.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2011 12:13PM by MJ.

The money involved would have to be considerable; it might take the actions of a wealthy benefactor to get it up and running. Sustaining it over a long time would be difficult. This kind of thing, though, could have a positive and profound impact on people's lives.

Gay & lesbian & bisexual teens have rights to a bully free environment & they can tell their school counselor or any teacher re intimidation or sexual harrassment requiring expulsion of those doing the bullying. If that harrassment is within the home it is possible that CPS in my state would intervene. If a 5150 intervention were required and sexual harrassment issues either at school or at home come up group home or safe housing in a safe environment SHOULD be a legal requirement.

That said- due process is everything. due process for the teen & due process is & should be everything. all teens need to be supported in their due process rights as are their families. Outside individuals have no legal right to interfere with families parenting their teens-until a court grants custody of a kind to them, or running an intervention program at a community center for said purpose within legal due process- respecting both teens & parents legal due process rights as they now stand.

Private non profit agencies run & you might be interested in supporting & establishing more: group homes for teens, foster care for teens, social work and social services for teens, after school drop in centers for teens, community centers for teens, home less shelters for run away & out of control teens, charter schools and magnet programs for teens, vocational programs for teens, counseling groups of teens- the list of possible ways to help- goes on and on.

/did you know-

The state holds parents legally accountable for school attendance (can SARB them, fine them, even sentence them to jail time for not having teenage minor students attend school.)

Wow did you know that?

so a teenager might not LIKE that, might not accept school rules, requirements they pass tests or do homework or attend in order to pass classes & get credit. How unpleasant is that? & they have to get of bed- to be to class on time or - get detention. & if they attend using alchol or drugs- well they face disciplinary consequences.

& if the parent does not comply with state laws on forcing their teen to comply with school attendance they the parent faces court proceedings. Did you know that?

meanwhile the parent of the teenager is required by law to live with this juvenile- no matter how obviously annoying he or she is, or to provide (financially support & arrange) housing and supervision for him or her elsewhere- despite how obviously annoying, rude, irritable, or uncivilized or self centered any of his/her tendencies are at times.

How would you be able to tell - that you weren't supporting a minor's refusal to be responsible or live responsibly, not be a school truant, etc.? How would you be able to tell you weren't an adult aiding and assisting a minor to underaged drinking (illegal in many states) underaged drug use (illegal in all states) just because they said they didn't believe in the word of wisdom anymore.

Does that mean they want to drink coffee to you? when a mormon teen says they want to break the word of wisdom you think its drinking coffee?
you can't believe its appropriate for adults outside one's family to aide and abet underaged drinking and partying- it isn't.

who is to say a person rebelling against parental authority- to go to sleep in their own bed each night, to get up and go to school, to do laundry or wear clean clothes, to not flunk out of school, to speak with civility to their mother when setting those boundaries & not cuss or swing at her, to avoid illegal actions the parent does not sanction like stealing or driving other people's vehicles without their permission, or using grandma's credit card to buy things online, ---
who is to say that a person rebelling against all these annoying things- won't make the church (which asks you not to steal, don't cuss at people telling you what to do, don't drink when you're underage at all) into a scapegoat in their manipulation of the situation to be free of the annoyance, of the inconvenience, of the rules of a parent?

seriously- what a risk.

I think a safehouse for teens annoyed with their parents enforcing rules who are also disbelieving in the church is a bad idea.

Gay lesbian Bisexual teens have more working against them than parents' ideas about the church- they need and legally are entitled to a safe workplace, a bully free, emotionally safe secure refuge in their public high school- a refuge including a Gay Straight Alliance club on campus with an advocating safety securing club advisor.

Unless the religion advocates sexual or physical abuse or prevents the kids from getting needed care, there isn't much the kids or others can do except bide their time.

Once the kids are of legal age, they can leave if they choose and find work and their own accomodations. That's difficult but many have managed to pull it off. I lived at my parents home, worked, and paid for my college then left as soon as I was close to graduation and a likely job at the end of the tunnel. Others join the military or take semesters off to work as necessary. Community colleges are usually inexpensive.

But temporary safe houses for young adults would be nice. Unfortunately, I've noticed that the exmo seems to always be stuck taking the adult role, even when they're very young "adults" because their TBM parents don't have the maturity to accept them as they are.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2010 06:53PM by Cheryl.

While I agree the parents have the right to teach certain religious views to the children, does the child have a right to believe something different than what the parent teaches?

Here in AZ, CPS will not intervene unless children are being severely physically abused.

It's such a shame. Many times the psychological and spiritual abuse can be worse.

the confrontational or nonconfrontational, timing or choice to assert differences of opinion-

further, the black and white conceptualization base so common developmentally of teens- meaning they are "all or nothing" and may desire absolute union cognitively- with regard to bits of opinions-

causing and creating mayhem at dinner all around them continually

if no Norms for dinner, say, are established and enforced. (ie no name calling, no attacking, polite passing not throwing of food, no bathroom humor- or whatever=
better norms communicate in a positive way: rather than I will not tease and bait until someone is crying, is we will use positive tone in dinner conversation etc.etc.)

If you saw some situation comedy about a bigot and his radical son in law, where they deliberately baited each other politically with the daughter getting irritated when her viewpoint wasn't supported and the mother kept serving dinner?
Regardless of a growing child's view point, which keeps changing, and is their own point of view-

there needs to be some Norms of social conduct in place at the dinner table to avoid living a situation comedy out- as someone's expense in one's own house. not home. house. Having that kind of hostile combative confrontational conversation-

in the kitchen, or at the dinner table, in a hall way, being driven into school-
is very hateful.

There has to be some way for people to say what they need to say, or find a peer group with which to say what they want to say-
rather than generate a conversation of hate every night at the dinner table.

So kids have rights to their own thoughts, but adults have some say or need to establish Norms for civility rather than baiting, or sustaining irritating grating dialoges or monologes at the dinner table even from their own teens. Even if someone by needing to be quite on something or be polite or civil rather than argue fiercely with a sibling or mother at the dinner table-

they should have peers they can express themselves freely with, and reach agreement with.

I dont' think its asking too much to require teens to collaborate on not generating or contributing to an atmosphere of hate- or animosity filled, acrid, rage spewing debate at the dinner table combined with name calling.

BTW same goes for dad. If my husband had those problems I would leave him rather than live through a decade of him degenerating to that level of dinner time conflict. Rather turn on the news and watch a war than live through one in my own house.

hating debating attacking, ranting name calling the whole thing- between siblings, parents fighting, the entire thing
seems to be what happens when someone has an opinion they want to express when that disagreement unknowingly or obviously knowingly is got to cause someone distress.

lets talk about the behavior gaining opportunity when positive attention is hard to come by or unsatisfactory and the sorroful habitual attainment of attention- through conflict and combat rather than affection or praise for attention.

where attention starved individuals combat and battle to survive and not just wither un noticed and die.

so saying- yeah, every one has a right to their own opinion, let's express ourselves at the dinner table right now-

is a real questionable strategy in some families. there are no norms for civil combat its all dramatic attack.

that's my concern. Someone's safe place needs to be in a non bullying atmosphere in school- with a supportive club advisor and fair safe adult mentoring.

Of course kids under 18 are a concern, particularly (but not always) LGBT kids. However, in my understanding there are laws that help protect minors. Parents can't just kick their teen out of the house without some consequences. They can certainly make life hard though. Until you are an adult your parents have a very wide array of options in terms of what they can do. Parents might threaten to kick their kids out, but if it actually ever did occur hopefully said kids are smart enough to call the police for help.

Once you turn 18, that all changes. I don't know about you guys, but I would have been totally lost as to what to do if I had been kicked out at 18. It wasn't until I was 21 that I had a clue how to actually function and put together a big enough paycheck to live off of. Everyone is different of course. For many young adults the threat of financial or familial disassociation is a real concern.

Imagine you are 19, and a BYU co-ed. You are living 100% off of what your parents provide you, you're whole life is church. You begin to doubt the church's claims, and suspect that if you say anything you're whole life would change dramatically. You might not want to go to school at BYU any more, your parents may threaten to not support you financially, and you simply do not yet have the life skills to go it alone. Remember, since you were little you've been taught to grow up depending on the church. Worse, you may totally lose your entire social support structure. Where would you turn for help if you needed it?

I think a halfway house with the below rules/features would help give some confidence to such individuals. They might find if they actually "come out" about their beliefs, their parents won't have the strong reaction they fear. If their parents do freak out, then someone is there to help catch them.

- Must be 18+
- 100% Non-religious (no one is going to preach to anyone).
- All basics of life provided such as food, clothes if necessary.
- Counseling if needed.
- A mentor who can fill in for recently disassociated parents, offering advice as to what to do, etc.
- Structured rules that will help keep the focus on healing, and moving on. (Limited time to stay, etc.)
- Privacy and security (not a room in someone's house, but a dedicated apartment or something).

I think the costs to support such an individual would be below $1000/mo. Maybe even as low as $500/mo if certain things can be donated. For example, someone who is sympathetic to exmos may have an apartment with a private entrance that they think is too much of a hassle to rent regularly. Perhaps such a place could be rented for $200/mo or something. Certainly, you would expect to only support such individuals 100% for the first 30-60 days. Beyond that they should start contributing something to food/rent. I would guess that within 3-5 months nearly any individual with the right help could be up and out.

There should be a safe house for 19/21 year olds who don't want to go on a mission..........

And the safehouse could be for missionaries who don't finish their missions.

Anon

LehiExMo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anyone know if there are safe houses to help
> those who want to leave the church? It seems every
> week we get a message in here where someone is
> concerned about telling their parents the truth
> about their beliefs because they are afraid of
> being kicked out or cut off financially. I'm
> curious if there is a program that exists to help
> those who want to leave Mormonism feel they have a
> safe way out if they need it. A place where they
> can live, as well as assistance finding work if
> they need it. As well as the ability to survive
> while they get their feet under them.

I take in boys and young adults who leave the abuse ,,help them get a new start in life,here in Tampa fl.
I was once in spiritual abuse,, i know the fear and abuse,,I'm here to help anyone that wants it and a fresh start one life.
brent

yes i help thoses who want to leave a get a fresh start.
blm302@yahoo.com
brent

It may work in Utah but in other contries theres nothing that would be cost effective and work.