Recovery Board
: RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
After about 8 beers you'll forgive me if I ramble a bit. Just feeling on the sad side tonight.
I found this board maybe 6 or so years ago as my world was crumbling around me like I never thought it could. Total financial ruin sent me in to a tailspin that has rocked me to the core.
During this difficult time I sought the comfort of the world more than the comfort of the "gospel". In a very short period of time my testimony was rocked to its core.
I found comfort in this site as I learned that many shared my same struggles. I also despised this site for its attacks on the faith that I held dear, but couldn't quite grasp any longer.
I was amused at some of the petty attacks on Mormons as a people. I was offended at the hypocracy and bigotry so readily found here towards "my people". I was also touched by the sincerety of many here who's hearts were broken like mine at the possiblility of a lifelong deeply held faith shattered.
Former bishops. Steve Benson. SLDrone. People who once gave all now openly denounced the faith. It was simply to much to process for awhile. It was terrifying and enlightening. Liberating and devastating all at the same time. It still is.
Cognitive dissonance is a real thing. My heart still very much embraces things that my mind is not so quick to accept any longer.
My family, both immediate and extended are immersed in the faith. My wife, is wonderfully understanding and patient with my confusion and hesitancy. My children likewise are non-judgemental but clearly confused at their dad's luke-warm commitment to what they view as the truth.
My friends and siblings are admirably understanding and non-judgemental towards my "fence-sitting". My parents(dad is a former bishop) are likewise confused but compeltely non-judgemental towards me.
I've always admired SLDrones post in which he longs for the time in which he believed. I echo his expression. I loved it when I was immersed in it. I am no longer immersed in it.
I struggle with those here who are so bitter towards the Mormon people. My experience is that the majority of them are really genuine people trying to live what they believe is a life that God approves of. There are, without question, an annoying segment of the tbm population. We all know that. Most however in my opinion simply are going with something that they see as beneficial to themselves and their families.
Through all of this I have never really lost faith in the existence of God. I know all of the arguments against God. I've witnessed the venomous debates between believer and non-believer. Both have convincing arguments. Ultimately I do believe there is a master plan. I believe there are answers to the tough questions that we simply don't know yet. I know that's viewed as a cop out to some. I understand. I don't judge anyone for how they make sense of their existence.
I echo Steve when I say cut me and I bleed Mormonism (or something to that effect :). It still shapes my general belief system. I will never despise it as some here do. I will probably never practice it as I once did so fervently.
Anyhow. Thanks for the vent session. Best wishes to everyone here in finding the answers to your toughest questions. Despite all of the struggle, life is good and there is much to do to help each other in this existence.
I found this board maybe 6 or so years ago as my world was crumbling around me like I never thought it could. Total financial ruin sent me in to a tailspin that has rocked me to the core.
During this difficult time I sought the comfort of the world more than the comfort of the "gospel". In a very short period of time my testimony was rocked to its core.
I found comfort in this site as I learned that many shared my same struggles. I also despised this site for its attacks on the faith that I held dear, but couldn't quite grasp any longer.
I was amused at some of the petty attacks on Mormons as a people. I was offended at the hypocracy and bigotry so readily found here towards "my people". I was also touched by the sincerety of many here who's hearts were broken like mine at the possiblility of a lifelong deeply held faith shattered.
Former bishops. Steve Benson. SLDrone. People who once gave all now openly denounced the faith. It was simply to much to process for awhile. It was terrifying and enlightening. Liberating and devastating all at the same time. It still is.
Cognitive dissonance is a real thing. My heart still very much embraces things that my mind is not so quick to accept any longer.
My family, both immediate and extended are immersed in the faith. My wife, is wonderfully understanding and patient with my confusion and hesitancy. My children likewise are non-judgemental but clearly confused at their dad's luke-warm commitment to what they view as the truth.
My friends and siblings are admirably understanding and non-judgemental towards my "fence-sitting". My parents(dad is a former bishop) are likewise confused but compeltely non-judgemental towards me.
I've always admired SLDrones post in which he longs for the time in which he believed. I echo his expression. I loved it when I was immersed in it. I am no longer immersed in it.
I struggle with those here who are so bitter towards the Mormon people. My experience is that the majority of them are really genuine people trying to live what they believe is a life that God approves of. There are, without question, an annoying segment of the tbm population. We all know that. Most however in my opinion simply are going with something that they see as beneficial to themselves and their families.
Through all of this I have never really lost faith in the existence of God. I know all of the arguments against God. I've witnessed the venomous debates between believer and non-believer. Both have convincing arguments. Ultimately I do believe there is a master plan. I believe there are answers to the tough questions that we simply don't know yet. I know that's viewed as a cop out to some. I understand. I don't judge anyone for how they make sense of their existence.
I echo Steve when I say cut me and I bleed Mormonism (or something to that effect :). It still shapes my general belief system. I will never despise it as some here do. I will probably never practice it as I once did so fervently.
Anyhow. Thanks for the vent session. Best wishes to everyone here in finding the answers to your toughest questions. Despite all of the struggle, life is good and there is much to do to help each other in this existence.
Do what is best for yourself and that best expresses who you are and the life you want to live. Take what makes sense to you from both the church and here and leave the rest. I'm glad you have supportive family and friends. I wish you well and hope you will find peace. Take it easy on the beer :-)
...how the friends, family members, etc. who are so very tolerant of your fence-sitting and doubts at present would react if you got off the fence and walked away from the church.
Maybe you would be one of the fortunate ones. But since you've spent a lot of time on this board, you know very well that is not always the case. Hence the bitterness.
Although I think that education is a wonderful thing (and this board is very educational,) it might make sense in your case to take a break from from the board, maybe a long break. Maybe just hang out with the NOM's or take a break from the questioning sites altogether. I say this because it doesn't seem to be helping you right now. You can stay in the church if you want. Not everyone is a fervent believer (although the structure of the church makes being less than a full believer harder than most other churches.)
At the same time, it might be beneficial to you to emotionally step back from the church as much as you can. Decrease its importance in your life, for the good or the bad. Church is one aspect of life, but it is not all of life. Invest your time and emotional energy in your family, your pets, reconnecting with nature, or in furthering a cause that you believe in. Perhaps look for an organization that is not church-oriented (Habitat for Humanity, the Sierra Club, etc.) Pursue your interests. Cultivate emotional health that is not church-dependant.
As for eight beers, yeesh, give yourself a break. That is way too many. Drink lots of water and/or juice (the beer will dehydrate you) and take some aspirin. If you hydrate and take some aspirin, you may head off a hangover.
Maybe you would be one of the fortunate ones. But since you've spent a lot of time on this board, you know very well that is not always the case. Hence the bitterness.
Although I think that education is a wonderful thing (and this board is very educational,) it might make sense in your case to take a break from from the board, maybe a long break. Maybe just hang out with the NOM's or take a break from the questioning sites altogether. I say this because it doesn't seem to be helping you right now. You can stay in the church if you want. Not everyone is a fervent believer (although the structure of the church makes being less than a full believer harder than most other churches.)
At the same time, it might be beneficial to you to emotionally step back from the church as much as you can. Decrease its importance in your life, for the good or the bad. Church is one aspect of life, but it is not all of life. Invest your time and emotional energy in your family, your pets, reconnecting with nature, or in furthering a cause that you believe in. Perhaps look for an organization that is not church-oriented (Habitat for Humanity, the Sierra Club, etc.) Pursue your interests. Cultivate emotional health that is not church-dependant.
As for eight beers, yeesh, give yourself a break. That is way too many. Drink lots of water and/or juice (the beer will dehydrate you) and take some aspirin. If you hydrate and take some aspirin, you may head off a hangover.
Life is all about learning a lesson and moving on with your new knowledge. I probably hated the church at one time as much as anyone. Nothing like finding out you were totally lied to and a big chunk of your life stolen from you. Get angry. Vent it out. But that's not recovery. Recovery is when you move on taking what you learned from your whole Mormon experience and applying that to a new post Mormon life that's hopefully better.
I think most of my anger, (and I'm much better off than I was at one point), came from the fact that I couldn't fit in. It was so much easier when I believed what everyone else believed and used the same vocabulary and acted the same. But I can't do that anymore. To sum it up, Mormons are good people in a lot of ways, but they have a VASTLY different perception of reality that makes things that they do and say normal and harmless, but to us, toxic and immature, etc. I had to deliberately detox myself from Mormonism, as in, forcefully get myself to not believe in it, because I knew that the aftermath of belief in Mormonism is not always very good. I would find myself trying to detach my belief from my bad actions and end up being influenced by people around me because of groupthink. It was very hard for a while to break free and think independently, but I forced myself and now I'm fine. Breaking free of the bad effects of Mormonism can be very hard and requires education, like what cults are and how they work and how Mormonism functions like one. After you find that out, you can no longer fit yourself in that world. Truly liberating, but sad, in that you simply won't fit back in. The requirements for being in and of the cult are too strenuous. If the church was just like any other christian church, I could probably make it work, but it's not, and I can't make it work. I still hold onto some of the ideas, (not really beliefs) of Mormonism, but the rest is history, and I have to move on. Good luck to you in your journey.
It is good to hear from you again!
I agree with so much that you've written. Finding out that the most important thing in the world isn't real is truly a very hard thing. Many times, even recently, I find myself wishing I had never discovered the truth. Leaving the church was extremely painful. Even today when it is a simple matter to pull up false statements and changed doctrines, there is, every once in a while, a hole a mile wide in my soul.
It is most fortunate that my wife and kids are onboard with me, but those I counted as friends are not. The brothers and sisters and parents are not- yea, even the jackmos and the exed one are accepted, but not the one that walked away.
I truly don't have anything against the people I knew at church and am friendly to them when we meet in passing, yet always wary of confrontation. I miss their handshake and pat on the back. I miss their acceptance of me, mending my broken person, and I mess teaching them and them teaching me, but I know that unless I pretended to my utmost ability, I could never be among them again.
I know too, that returning, whether under pretense just to get along or by sincere belief, people like us could never teach a class without them doubting our sincerity, we could never participate in class without a carefully trained ear focused on our every word ready to report any deviation.
Truly it sucks to give up the one thing that binds us all together and be left to kick against the pricks as they call it, but when something is as blatantly false as this is laid bare, no matter how uncomfortable, there are those of us who, like you, just can not live a lie.
After all, it is integrity that the church demands of us, and we should show nothing less.
From "Integrity," from the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy:
Vices that undermine integrity-
Arrogance, dogmatism, fanaticism, monomania, preciousness, sanctimoniousness, and rigidity. These are all traits that can defeat integrity in so far as they undermine and suppress attempts by an individual to critically assess and balance their desires, commitments, wishes, changing goals and other factors
Contrary to Hinckleys Book title,
ii) The "Standing for something" or Respect for Others Interpretation
On this view, integrity is not defined by which beliefs one must stand up for but by how one stands up for them. ON this interpretation, integrity requires us to be honest open and public about what our beliefs are. Integrity requires us to stand up publicly for our beliefs in addition to acting on them. This shows respect for others in our moral community by not dissembling or hiding where we stand and by fostering the moral debate that is crucial if a community is to make good decisions and if moral change is going to be possible. A society of liars and dissemblers is not one that is going to have good moral or political debates or make good moral or political decisions.
http://philosophy.csusb.edu/~tmoody/Past%20classes/F05%20191%20integrity.htm
He can hardly demand our integrity when he himself openly dissembled or hir where he stood on national TV and then lied to his own people about it.
To see the lie and then walk away regardless of the pain is a sign of true moral integrity. Something that the Prophet can scarcly recognize.
I agree with so much that you've written. Finding out that the most important thing in the world isn't real is truly a very hard thing. Many times, even recently, I find myself wishing I had never discovered the truth. Leaving the church was extremely painful. Even today when it is a simple matter to pull up false statements and changed doctrines, there is, every once in a while, a hole a mile wide in my soul.
It is most fortunate that my wife and kids are onboard with me, but those I counted as friends are not. The brothers and sisters and parents are not- yea, even the jackmos and the exed one are accepted, but not the one that walked away.
I truly don't have anything against the people I knew at church and am friendly to them when we meet in passing, yet always wary of confrontation. I miss their handshake and pat on the back. I miss their acceptance of me, mending my broken person, and I mess teaching them and them teaching me, but I know that unless I pretended to my utmost ability, I could never be among them again.
I know too, that returning, whether under pretense just to get along or by sincere belief, people like us could never teach a class without them doubting our sincerity, we could never participate in class without a carefully trained ear focused on our every word ready to report any deviation.
Truly it sucks to give up the one thing that binds us all together and be left to kick against the pricks as they call it, but when something is as blatantly false as this is laid bare, no matter how uncomfortable, there are those of us who, like you, just can not live a lie.
After all, it is integrity that the church demands of us, and we should show nothing less.
From "Integrity," from the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy:
Vices that undermine integrity-
Arrogance, dogmatism, fanaticism, monomania, preciousness, sanctimoniousness, and rigidity. These are all traits that can defeat integrity in so far as they undermine and suppress attempts by an individual to critically assess and balance their desires, commitments, wishes, changing goals and other factors
Contrary to Hinckleys Book title,
ii) The "Standing for something" or Respect for Others Interpretation
On this view, integrity is not defined by which beliefs one must stand up for but by how one stands up for them. ON this interpretation, integrity requires us to be honest open and public about what our beliefs are. Integrity requires us to stand up publicly for our beliefs in addition to acting on them. This shows respect for others in our moral community by not dissembling or hiding where we stand and by fostering the moral debate that is crucial if a community is to make good decisions and if moral change is going to be possible. A society of liars and dissemblers is not one that is going to have good moral or political debates or make good moral or political decisions.
http://philosophy.csusb.edu/~tmoody/Past%20classes/F05%20191%20integrity.htm
He can hardly demand our integrity when he himself openly dissembled or hir where he stood on national TV and then lied to his own people about it.
To see the lie and then walk away regardless of the pain is a sign of true moral integrity. Something that the Prophet can scarcly recognize.
There are a lot of Mormon folks I love. I just hate their church. I hate it for selling me their brand of eternity and promising me that they were the only way to God, when they were lying to me all along.
They knew about the truth of the Book of Abraham about 10 years before I was even baptized, and yet they presented it to me as genuine scripture. Of course I hate the organization. They devastate people with their lies.
All they wanted from me was my money, when I could never afford to give it. And when I couldn't pay it, they told me that Jesus would just stand back and let me be burned at His Second Coming. That was absolutely terrifying to me. I had horrible nightmares about it.
I think it's a matter of what your experiences have been. If your experiences were wonderful, and you loved the Church, and yet unfortunately came across information which told you it wasn't true, which maybe you'd rather not have known, then you will mourn your former life.
But what about the folks whose families have been torn apart by the Church? What about those who have been raped and have been blamed for it, while they watch their rapists go unpunished and the deed covered up to protect the Priesthood and the reputation of the Church? What about those who've been physically abused by leadership members they should have been able to trust completely?
What about those who've had spouses tell them that their marriages were over, simply because they could no longer believe? What about those whose children have not spoken to them in years? What about the 18 or 19-year-old kids who've been kicked out of their homes because they no longer believed? I've seen that happen more than I could ever have imagined.
I've been on the forums for about 2 1/2 years now and I've seen such heart-ache and pain. It's those people who need us more than anyone else.
All I'm saying is that it's a matter of one's experiences, and the level of devastation that the Church has wrought in their lives, which determines on how they feel about it now.
For some, that anger comes merely from being lied to, which really, is no small thing either, and they have a right to be angry.
We're all different, and our experiences are different. We're all at various levels of recovery after we've learned the truth. Some have just learned it and others have been away from the Church for a very long time.
Most of us go through that anger stage, but the anger does subside over time. For some, that stage is shorter, as mine was. For others, depending on their level of pain, it can last for years.
I can understand your pain, if you've lost faith in an organization that you loved. Your experience would be more towards a mourning of that loss, rather than an anger.
Perhaps some day you will be angry that they taught you a lie. Even if you don't, that doesn't matter, because of what I've been saying all along - that everyone's experience is unique, and that's okay.
I hope you're feeling better this morning.
They knew about the truth of the Book of Abraham about 10 years before I was even baptized, and yet they presented it to me as genuine scripture. Of course I hate the organization. They devastate people with their lies.
All they wanted from me was my money, when I could never afford to give it. And when I couldn't pay it, they told me that Jesus would just stand back and let me be burned at His Second Coming. That was absolutely terrifying to me. I had horrible nightmares about it.
I think it's a matter of what your experiences have been. If your experiences were wonderful, and you loved the Church, and yet unfortunately came across information which told you it wasn't true, which maybe you'd rather not have known, then you will mourn your former life.
But what about the folks whose families have been torn apart by the Church? What about those who have been raped and have been blamed for it, while they watch their rapists go unpunished and the deed covered up to protect the Priesthood and the reputation of the Church? What about those who've been physically abused by leadership members they should have been able to trust completely?
What about those who've had spouses tell them that their marriages were over, simply because they could no longer believe? What about those whose children have not spoken to them in years? What about the 18 or 19-year-old kids who've been kicked out of their homes because they no longer believed? I've seen that happen more than I could ever have imagined.
I've been on the forums for about 2 1/2 years now and I've seen such heart-ache and pain. It's those people who need us more than anyone else.
All I'm saying is that it's a matter of one's experiences, and the level of devastation that the Church has wrought in their lives, which determines on how they feel about it now.
For some, that anger comes merely from being lied to, which really, is no small thing either, and they have a right to be angry.
We're all different, and our experiences are different. We're all at various levels of recovery after we've learned the truth. Some have just learned it and others have been away from the Church for a very long time.
Most of us go through that anger stage, but the anger does subside over time. For some, that stage is shorter, as mine was. For others, depending on their level of pain, it can last for years.
I can understand your pain, if you've lost faith in an organization that you loved. Your experience would be more towards a mourning of that loss, rather than an anger.
Perhaps some day you will be angry that they taught you a lie. Even if you don't, that doesn't matter, because of what I've been saying all along - that everyone's experience is unique, and that's okay.
I hope you're feeling better this morning.
Ya the 8 beers was stupid! I don't do that very often. This morning I remember why:).
Anyhow thanks a ton for your thoughts. It is a complex process. I realize some people's break from the church was far more traumatic than mine and thus harder for them not to be bitter. If I had experienced some of the stories I've read here I'd be ready for a fight too.
I'm pretty fortunate that I'm surrounded by what are genuinely good people, both mo and non-mo. I don't know. Sometimes I think the hurt/confusion I see in them is more painful than if they openly condemned me.
Who knows? There's no easy answers in my opinion. Just love people, be selfless, and live life. The Golden Rule seems to trump all of the confusion and controversy.
Again, just wanted to thank people for their kind thoughts. Happy Monday to all.
Anyhow thanks a ton for your thoughts. It is a complex process. I realize some people's break from the church was far more traumatic than mine and thus harder for them not to be bitter. If I had experienced some of the stories I've read here I'd be ready for a fight too.
I'm pretty fortunate that I'm surrounded by what are genuinely good people, both mo and non-mo. I don't know. Sometimes I think the hurt/confusion I see in them is more painful than if they openly condemned me.
Who knows? There's no easy answers in my opinion. Just love people, be selfless, and live life. The Golden Rule seems to trump all of the confusion and controversy.
Again, just wanted to thank people for their kind thoughts. Happy Monday to all.
I'm glad you seem to be feeling a little better today.
I am sure some other responses have provided some thoughtful comfort or guidance. I really liked reading your post because you wonderfully expressed what I think and feel on a regular basis.
If I could offer my own advice, I would remind you to breathe, take it slowly, and keep accepting that your journey includes a lot of loss and sadness.
Still, I expect your journey will take you somewhere not far from my own current state: I would never go back. I am awake, and no longer wish to dream.
If I could offer my own advice, I would remind you to breathe, take it slowly, and keep accepting that your journey includes a lot of loss and sadness.
Still, I expect your journey will take you somewhere not far from my own current state: I would never go back. I am awake, and no longer wish to dream.
I couldn't believe the things they were saying about the nice old man, Gordon B. Hinckley. I got over it.
Don't drink so much beer.
Don't drink so much beer.
I just wish the people who you think are just trying to live life the best they can to please God and the way they think is best would be accepting of others. And you know they are not. Mormons distance themselves from others. It is hard for nevermos to process the fact that some are so ingrained in their religion that they won't even TALK to nevermos. It is absolutely true that they won't. They walk the other way, look away, don't include your kids in things. If you are not seeing that, you are one lucky person to have normal acting Mormons around you. I know God does not approve of the unfriendliness I have experienced with the majority of Mormons I know. Best wishes as you accept the truth of your situation.
That being said, I know everyone's experience is different. Maybe I am lucky. The majority of Mo's I know are real. Had lunch today with a bunch of temple recommend holding rm's that I grew up with. They are good fathers, loyal husbands, hard workers etc. We laughed about their recent Vegas trip. We talked about drinking, sex, gambling and every other vice that we all have struggled with at various times. They're human. It was fun. Not a word about church.
Spent some time with my former bishop dad this morning. We had a good laugh as he dropped a few swear words aimed at the cluster f*&k economy we're dealing with. Not a word about why he had to baptize my daughter a few months back.
Bumped into the second counselor in my bishopric a few nights ago who lives four house down. We talked ncaa hoops and he rolled his eyes as his wife approached cuz he had to go on a walk with the family rather than watch the game. We had a good laugh as he headed off with his family. Not a word about why I've rejected his invitations to be a home teacher.
I'm right in the heart of Mormon country and I've just had overwhelmingly good reception from the Mo community. Like I said, they are genuinely confused by my inactivity but I just haven't experienced the negativity that some have. Maybe it goes on behind my back. Probably so.
Not earth shattering experiences. Just real moments away from the chapel.
I know the term "love bombs" and "kill 'em with kindness" and so forth. Not the case here. Just cool moments with some friends and family who are also devout mormons.
No matter how frustrated I am at the organization, I refuse to sour on the people who still love it. The annoying one's(again, I know plenty of them) I simply avoid. The majority of them I will remain close to for the rest of my life.
Spent some time with my former bishop dad this morning. We had a good laugh as he dropped a few swear words aimed at the cluster f*&k economy we're dealing with. Not a word about why he had to baptize my daughter a few months back.
Bumped into the second counselor in my bishopric a few nights ago who lives four house down. We talked ncaa hoops and he rolled his eyes as his wife approached cuz he had to go on a walk with the family rather than watch the game. We had a good laugh as he headed off with his family. Not a word about why I've rejected his invitations to be a home teacher.
I'm right in the heart of Mormon country and I've just had overwhelmingly good reception from the Mo community. Like I said, they are genuinely confused by my inactivity but I just haven't experienced the negativity that some have. Maybe it goes on behind my back. Probably so.
Not earth shattering experiences. Just real moments away from the chapel.
I know the term "love bombs" and "kill 'em with kindness" and so forth. Not the case here. Just cool moments with some friends and family who are also devout mormons.
No matter how frustrated I am at the organization, I refuse to sour on the people who still love it. The annoying one's(again, I know plenty of them) I simply avoid. The majority of them I will remain close to for the rest of my life.
staind Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was amused at some of the petty attacks on
> Mormons as a people. I was offended at the
> hypocracy and bigotry so readily found here
> towards "my people" . . .
> I struggle with those here who are so bitter
> towards the Mormon people. My experience is that
> the majority of them are really genuine people
> trying to live what they believe is a life that
> God approves of.
I hear ya and agree. It's a diabolical satanic counterfeit that has deceived so many, and ridiculing and despising those who are deceived is childish, immature, and silly.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was amused at some of the petty attacks on
> Mormons as a people. I was offended at the
> hypocracy and bigotry so readily found here
> towards "my people" . . .
> I struggle with those here who are so bitter
> towards the Mormon people. My experience is that
> the majority of them are really genuine people
> trying to live what they believe is a life that
> God approves of.
I hear ya and agree. It's a diabolical satanic counterfeit that has deceived so many, and ridiculing and despising those who are deceived is childish, immature, and silly.
I frequently hear from LDS friends that the Church is perfect, but the people are not.
Horse-poo. The Church is bad, but not as bad as some organizations. Could be worse, but I sure would have liked to be told the truth when growing up in it.
I disagree with my original statement even more relative to the people. I think they are putting themselves down in a way with this statement, and I think they are flat out wrong.
LDS people are not special. They are not evil. They are just people. Good, bad, indifferent. People. I wish they had more respect for themselves as <mostly> decent people and didn't try to make everything they are as somehow created by the Perfect Church.
They try to give all credit to the church, and none to themselves for their gifts, achievements, etc. - blah. They waste too much time sitting in pews being mind-numbed to death. So much more could be accomplished by very driven people who actually worked to make the world a better place and spent less time congratulating themselves on how great they are because of the church.
Just hang in there. There aren't answers or perfect solutions to every problem. Learn about the church at your own speed and draw whatever conclusions you wish.
Continue to be a good person and care about the people who matter to you. That really is all that matters.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2011 03:20AM by wwfsmd.
Horse-poo. The Church is bad, but not as bad as some organizations. Could be worse, but I sure would have liked to be told the truth when growing up in it.
I disagree with my original statement even more relative to the people. I think they are putting themselves down in a way with this statement, and I think they are flat out wrong.
LDS people are not special. They are not evil. They are just people. Good, bad, indifferent. People. I wish they had more respect for themselves as <mostly> decent people and didn't try to make everything they are as somehow created by the Perfect Church.
They try to give all credit to the church, and none to themselves for their gifts, achievements, etc. - blah. They waste too much time sitting in pews being mind-numbed to death. So much more could be accomplished by very driven people who actually worked to make the world a better place and spent less time congratulating themselves on how great they are because of the church.
Just hang in there. There aren't answers or perfect solutions to every problem. Learn about the church at your own speed and draw whatever conclusions you wish.
Continue to be a good person and care about the people who matter to you. That really is all that matters.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2011 03:20AM by wwfsmd.