Was your family in either category? Or have you known wardmembers who were extreme examples? What about bishops, SPs and above?

Two kinds of Mormons buy into the scheme:
The cruel and the clueless.

Some are forced to stay because they are related/married to the cruel and the clueless. But I think there are more clueless.

Good wording, so accurate!

I have seen many power hungry arogrant mormons,,some dumb as a turd. they love those titles and positions and being "ordained by god". I have also seen people in other faiths be as condecending and powerful in their beliefs as the mormons. I feel that some people need to feel empowered in that way.

The average ward member is either a gullible dupe or a doubting, disbeliever in fear of losing face or family.

The sneaky, manipulative control freaks are in the leadership positions. Because Mormonism rewards you for twisting yourself into a pretzel for the "firm" and fitting the Mormon image. The people who most deny who they are to become what the Morg tells them to be are the ones who end up the leaders. And, people who have been manipulative and controlled, become manipulative and controlling and sneaky.

Sounds like a recipe for creating sociopaths.

"The people who most deny who they are to become what the Morg tells them to be are the ones who end up the leaders."

So true.

I can't answer for certain, but myself, I've been witnessed more manipulation as far as the few times i was around people of the LDS faith.

My father definitely fits in the manipulative category. He changes wards every two years, even now in his seventies, because he talks local members into "investing." Their money leaves town with him. There are lots of MLM members like him, but I think the majority of members are hapless dupes.

I admit that in the past I was perhaps too trusting and naive but since moving to Utah four years ago we have been deceived and ripped off so many times by Mormons. Mostly on home repairs, basement completion and the like. I honestly think it's cutthroat mentality because not only is it important for Mormons to keep up a perfect family facade with the larger home, BMW's, toys, etc... most families have a lot of mouths to feed.

The verdict is still out though on if these scam artists are simply more abundant in larger cities and smell a gullible Montana native a mile away.

Thairs a third kind the cruel and the clueless the ones that stick in the higharachy and those below them get to suffer because they suffer from the higher ups.

If many of the church higher-ups are descendants of, and tend to only intermarry with, decendants of other original church higher ups, could the 'Mormon leader profile" in all its negativity and offensiveness, be acquired genetically?

In other words, the attributes are not a result of taking on the leadership role they end up with, but are instead already present in those who, by birth and pedigree, are on track to be Mormon leaders?

If so many descendants of these original leaders display what look like (from my admittedly untrained perspective), extreme narcissism, or megalomania, or bi-polar/personality disorders, could these be inherited conditions, passed down by the oldest and original generations, to the newest? Especially in such a closed society, or isolated group of people, as the LDS leadership originally was?

Personality traits and temperments can be the signs and symptoms of physical or mental illness. Those can be inherited.

We talk about a tendancy toward violent rages or extreme vanity, selfishness, or arrogance--but if a psychiatrist got hold of the person we are discussing, they might throw in the whole I-want-to-be-a-God thing in addition and label them a narcissist or megalomaniac. Or schizophrenic.

And while schizophrenia exists in only about 1% of the US population, the kids of schizophrenics have a 2% chance of aquiring it (double the chance). Is it like that with other mental illnesses, and can they be acquired to a greater degree than this relatively low 1-2% risk schizophrenics have?

I am truly not trying to offend or stereotype. I am looking at the smaller numbers, the (for want of a better word) inbreeding among that small group or church founders, and really wondering.

Animal husbandry is considered successful because animals we need and use, or desire, are bred not only for their physical characteristics, but temperment, too.

Temperment in animals may stem from the physical, no one really knows about that for sure. But good temperment is why certain animals that meet the breed standard for physical attributes, are the ones reserved as breeders---whether the animals are intended as race horses, brood sows on a farm, service animals to the handicapped, or family pets. Those that also meet the standrad, but have poor or aggressive temperments, are not---not if you want strong healthy offspring, and to continue the line through many generations.

The only exception might be championship show dogs and cats, where grandparents are bred with grandchildren, and brothers with sisters, with the single goal being to breed the best looking animal---and genetic problems and aggressiveness and other negative things are ignored. Ignored because there is so much money to be made from 'perfect' looking animals.

Did any of that make sense? If I offended, I did not intend it.

Mormons idealize and worship leaders, some of whom might be mentally damaged through generations of inbreading.

This is more evident and extreme in the mormon polygamous groups, but also similarly possible in the larger mormon community. The mainstreamers are closely connected to the polygamists genetically, historically, and through a common belief system.

bookratt, your considered thoughts are not offensive at all, but rather enlightening. I come from a line of Mormons who suffered from personality disorders, mostly narcissism. My father was the most self-righteous a-hole among his siblings, many of whom renounced Mormonism. My father's father was a crazed nutcase Mormon who lectured at length on God and religion. That man's father was in turn a Mormon polygamist.

My lineage represents the worst of the worst in my DNA line. Every generation has a schism of those who reject Mormon superstition and those who embrace it. You can probably guess that those of us who leave it are shunned and disowned. So it goes.

My father was a convert attracted to the morg because he was a crazed nutcase attracted to the morg because he liked the idea of being destined for greatness from the pre-existence.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2011 08:42AM by Cheryl.

Cheryl Wrote:
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> Was your family in either category?

Nope. Thank God my parents and siblings are nonmembers, although one of my siblings lives in Utah with their family!

If I'd have converted I'd been the one and only in a very large family. Even ancestors. From the little bit I know, I think the leaders are manipulative, therefore the people in priesthood on down are somewhat the same. They see it being done to themselves, think it's the right environment so therefore they deliver the same.(manipulation) It's a domino effect and it just keeps trinkling down.

I believed it all. However, in no way was I manipulative or controlling. I've known a lot of mormons who are just as kind, gentle and respectful as I was. They were gullible dupes like me, but weren't manipulative or controlling.

I also knew some of the manipulative, controlling type, but I just ignored them.

My mom was baptized when I was a year old. The missionaries and members had told her all sorts of wonderful things, and because her life was miserable because of an abusive husband and too many kids (her own 2 daughters and 3 step-sons), she had hope for things to get better through the gospel, as promised. But as you know, things don't get better. She had 2 more daughters, the abuse and beatings continued, and she divorced him when I was 7.

Every single person in my family except for my older sister have left the church. My mother, my father, me and my 2 younger sisters, and our 3 half-brothers - all out. My older sister only remains for family and cultural reasons.

Stupid cult.

TG

I kind of think that most including converts and BIC start out as dupes and eventually end up being manipulative because the manipulation is so covert most do not know they are doing it because it is done so well by the leaders. At some point, I think maybe a person should realize that they should not shame, shun, or guilt other people. I chalk it up to the original offender of the faith JS and the way he used people for his own gratification and advancement. It still baffles me!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2011 03:05PM by tiptoes.