I went to the formerly-named MA&D board and wasted a few brain cells politely and carefully pointing out elementary reasoning errors. It didn't go over well and now the most annoying poster on earth has answered my posts with drivel of unbelievably low quality.

Part of me enjoys the 'dialogue' because I've found that using the combined lasers of truth and reason are an effective way to get him to say increasingly ridiculous things. Any rational reader probably thinks he's a nutcase at this point-- I think even his fellow Mormons have got to be embarrassed (if they even pay attention to him).

But, I've got to stop. He's a fish in a barrel and my brain cells are worth more than this.

I have a problem. Help me cease. Remind me how ridiculous it is. Should I find some kind of software that will block that site from my computer? I am better than this. Or am I?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2011 08:33AM by angsty.

I know what you are going through. I have been on that side of looking at the ridiculousness.

However, I am going to burst your bubble, and that might help. You are most likely NOT "showing" them "reason.". You are posting on a site with unreasonable people who love to say unreasonable things. The more ridiculous the better.

So, I don't think you are doing "good."

I would suggest limiting your time on the site. Maybe only once a week. In time you will probably find that you don't even want to go there.

OR, when you want to visit there, visit a hardcore pornography site instead. It'll be much more productive and less embarrassing for everyone involved.

I just realized that I am a troll.

While my initial intention was to put a rational objection on record, just for my own peace of mind, my continued participation has only been with the purpose of making the aforementioned poster look more ridiculous than he is capable of appearing without something rational to respond to.

Oh my, my, how the mighty have fallen.

I am a troll, a troll, a troll. I am surprised at myself.

But, I wouldn't beat myself up over it. Off maybe. But not up.

The important thing is that you have recognized this problem. That is the first step to overcoming it. Now while trollish thoughts and feelings are natural, even healthy, you can refrain from acting on them. Choose wisely.

If you are really having trouble staying away from the place, say something that will get you permanently banned. Should be easy.

I think I will refrain from posting while planning an elaborate exit strategy. I don't want to do a drive-by--- too expected.

This will require planning. What a great way to procrastinate papers and grading.

Tell him you must both agree to disagree and time will tell. Then back slowly away from your keyboard and go for a walk, mentally erasing him from your memory. There is just no fixing stupid.

I've posted that I'm done with that discussion and I'm not going to check back to see if he responds. His stupidity is flagrantly displayed and needs no further investment from me.

you can tell yourself you won't
you tell yourself you'll only pwak, but won't respond
then you tell yourself you'll only respond this once, a quick rational argument...
You gots yourself an habit there my friend...
How's marking? I'm up to my eyeballs in it!

We've got some really bright students this semester-- and then some entertainingly bad ones. I just finished grading 70 essays on Frankfurt's "On Bullshit". Some of the students understood Frankfurt's account, some of them apparently didn't read or attend class, and just wrote their own account of bullshit which qualified as bullshit by their own standards (It was fun put that comment in red ink).

As I was working through the last ten I realized that I don't think his paradigmatic example works and now I'm suspicious that Frankfurt has had a joke on me. Heh heh...

...I have not checked back, but I'm sure temptation will get the better of me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2011 09:35AM by angsty.

Lunch with raptor was awesome. He mentioned you while we devored the flesh of small mammals. You are next on my list for buying lunch.

Let's get lunch Cabbie. You're a farking smart man and you live near me. Even our Lord and savior RJ admires you. You may drive a cab, but you are much than meets the eye.

Sincerely,
MiB with his pledge to buy your lunch :-).

Oooh! My grandchildren are going to want to meet you! ;)

Logic does not work for those whose decision is not based on emotion. Sad but true.

I once got stuck in a posting war about a crime case. It took more time and energy than it should have and I convinced no one.

Screw them. Let them stew in their petty little minds. I often use as parting shot that dealing with room temperature IQs is a waste of my time as I need a challenge. Yeah it's arrogent as hell but F*** em.

He has more experience with that site than I; I've never registered, one of the tools I use to avoid temptation same as when I quit drinking, I gave away all my private club cards; a second is that I never bookmark the place, so I have to type "mormondialogue.org" into a browser window (a clean browser with all the cookies cleaned out).

Because I do that, I get to read that "Focussed Discussions" header, and it's still that same silliness... I do the same thing if I start getting lonely and think the bar scene might be fun again... I pick the biggest dive I can find, and I go in and use the restroom... Works pretty welll...

This bit of disjointed syntax is still up over there...

>This section is for Original Thread Starters that have been invited to post on a specific topic have complete control over the direction of their thread. Once again this does not mean they can dictate a thread in a way where their is no opposition to it but to help keep on topic and disruptions to a minimum.

Okay, that helps with your mindset... It lowers your expectations... I mean you're gonna go over there and convert people like you did on your misson? C'mon! I never did a mission, but from what I read here, the Mormons don't try to do missionary work in the faculty rooms of major universities do they?

Same with heading over to MA&D; pick your targets and own your motives... My guess is you just want to hold someone accountable for all those years you spent in the church, right?

Let 'it go...

But, as the Wise Ol' Cabbie once told me, "Easy to coach, hard to play." Shoot, I found this politics site where these trolls come in and get everybody all stirred up and there's a lot of hollering and shooting and shouting and drama, and then a Mod comes in and nukes the trolls, only unlike here, the "residuals" are left up and things look a bit stupid and awkward (BTW, never, ever, take it personal here if you tweak a troll--or one of the regulars just being a butthead by violating the rules--and your stuff is nuked as collateral damage. Susan is a bit of a neatnik).

I lost most of last week bitchslappling a bunch of miscreants and anal-retentive types over there... And RaptorJesus complains about LDS Freedom Forums... That place is the number one crackhouse site on the Internet, seriously...

They're back again, BTW...

So, what would you say to me? Honest, I just wanted them to go away...

Write it down, and do your best to follow your own advice...

And let me know how it works...

Sometimes, though, you just have to find someone who really needs the shit slapped out them and do exactly that..

Just be careful there are no kids and kittens around to get hurt...

I did some thinking on this last night and I think I've figured out my interest. I'm working out family shit.

My brothers and dad have historically been intellectual bullies-- not unlike that crowd. They are not completely irrational and we don't have shouting matches. It's all very polite. Just in virtue of their (strong) personalities, it takes guts to challenge anything they say. They are so authoritative when they speak, and so sure that their beliefs are completely rational. No one who really believed in the church would ever leave and no one ever left on truly legitimate intellectual grounds...

Anyway, they do this thing where they push buttons and get their opponents so worked up that you walk away shaking and unsure of how the discussion ended up being where it did. I don't think they realize consciously that they are doing it-- I don't think they realize when they change the subject subtly or when they're talking out of their asses. I think it's what they've seen done (my dad, my grandpa) and they think it's a legitimate way to establish their perspective as authoritative.

The thing is, before I left the church and got an education, I always felt very stupid around them. They just seemed so gifted, so smart, so blessed..blah...blah... AND got the priesthood authority too. People in their wards think they're the smartest, most awesome faithful guys in the world.

It used to be that whenever I got into it with one of them, I'd end up looking like an idiot because I'd get too flustered to think in the moment. Not anymore. I realize more and more that they're not as smart as I always took them to be. They're not fools or anything, but their arguments are weak and if they'd hear me out, they'd see that.

I go to that board because I see over and over the kinds of illegitimate moves my brothers make. It's all so standard.

The last time I had a phone conversation with my oldest brother, it was really fun and productive. Because I was already acquainted with the standard 'smart Mormon' responses to the subject matter at hand, I was able to have a productive conversation with him and by the end of it I got him to agree that the church was wrong on something (Prop 8). He probably walked away wondering how that happened, but just hearing him say "Okay, you're right. The church shouldn't have gotten involved and I don't really care whether gays marry or not." was a really gratifying moment.

I think I will take your advice. No bookmarks, and I'll limit myself to once a week. And instead of dealing vicariously with confused people there, I'll just call up one of my brothers. They still haven't got used to the fact that I will probably flog them, so they're still game to argue. I'm sure once they realize that they are always losing, things will change-- either they will sharpen up, or quit engaging. I hope they sharpen up. It's not like I play to beat people up with my mental powers. I mean I like a good argument-- but fundamentally, I'm interested in truth and arguing with a well-informed, skilled opponent strikes me as a very good way of exploring what is true and figuring out where I am wrong.

As I drifted further away from the church, I kept going back to the KSL message boards for ANYTHING dealing with the Mormon church.

I didn't post, but the board would always erupt about Mormonism, and I saw every argument ever.

I also read every thread on this board about coming out to family members.

Surprise, surprise that when I came out to my parents the conversation devolved into an argument that was really really standard.

I had seen it ALL before and knew exactly what was coming next. And I got to control the discussion much more because I already knew points and counterpoints that would be thrown out.

I didn't get pushed around like what usually happens when someone expresses doubt. In fact, on reflection, robertb said it best when he said that they were afraid of me now.

That's how the conversation went. And I'm still waiting for my mother to prove to me that Moses was actually the dude that the bible claims he is and did the what it said he did without using the bible.

Cricket, cricket.

If you really want to spend a few hours with your mouth to the floor from reading the craziest shit you have ever seen in you life, take a gander at LDS Freedom Forum. When I am bored and I need a laugh that is where I go.

I wasn't the first to discover it, only the first from RFM, and like Ol' Chris, I lived to tell about it and made it back to civilization...

Careful there, though, as RaptorJesus has pointed out, people have ventured there from here and never been heard from again...

We don't think they felll off the edge of the earth, but metaphorically it amounts to the same thing...

what is the ma&d board?

It's the old Mormon Apologetics & Discussion Board. It's now called "Mormon Dialogue & Discussion" and it's hosted at mormondialogue.org.

It can be a maddening experience, reading there.

I didn't plagiarize your stuff, honest, it took me a little longer on my reply because I had to prepare those vaccinations...

There's no sense putting the link out because it no longer exists. A lot of us think the name change was due to them getting tired of MA&Dhouse jokes (loved 'em myself), same way the Foundation for Ancient Religons and Mormon Studies (FARMS) probably underwent a makeover when I started introducing Farmer Bullshipper and their manure making operation...

Their discussion subjects included such scholastic brilliances as "Why DNA Really Means 'Does Not Apply'" and "How Three Letters (NHM) Are a Statically More Powerful Proof of the BOM than 100 Years of Archaeology."

Discussions of temple rituals and the historic changes therein were strictly verböten... And it was grounds for banishment to Outer Darkness to win a debate with Denial C. Peterson. The Limited Geography Theory was gospel despite the story of Zelph or 2 Nephi 1:8. Those who would hold fast to Rod Meldrum were scorned... Nibley trumps all past prophets except the current one, but even Peterson had trouble with Nibley being a Democrat... When all else fails and Satan is buffeting your soul and tempting you with apostasy you always have a spiritual witness that the BOM is true...

Okay, best I can do to immunize you... At your own risk... It's new, not-so-secret name...

http://www.mormondialogue.org



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2011 09:36AM by SL Cabbie.

My other board is www.coastgab.com. I like listening to the radio at night and like paranormal and UFO subjects. The coastgab group is anti-George Noory, the new host who attempted to replace Art Bell but is a bumpkin in a SouthParky fun-to-make-fun-of way.

I consider the regulars my friends, like some here. Smart, sassy posters and always a laugh.

Anagrammy

I need that on a t-shirt.

It might look clever but it makes your hands smell. ;o/\

...is that the stupid people are getting more and more POWER and are trying to get to be IN CHARGE so they can dic-freakin-tate how I live my own damn life!