...to mention the problem about the "holy ghost" "confirming the truth" of the incorrect information =)

Like in the Mark Hoffman affair. Two people were MURDERED because they only spoke and acted as men, apparently NOT given the power of discernment even as apostles of the Lord, wherein 2 innocent lives were soon thereafter taken by Hoffman, the man they were dealing with in buying up what they should have know, by the power of the Holy Ghost, were not only fraudulent documents, but that Hoffman was, as well, was a murderer.

UNBELIEVABLE HOW THE MO'S TURNED THEIR HEADS ON THAT ONE!!! I swear the indoctrination is so very deep, the GA's can get away with anything, ANYTHING at all! TBM's are taught not to think, and so they do not. They are NOT stupid by any means, only seriously indoctrinated. It is tragic to see the mind numbing that occurs. It is rather like they exist withhin some kind of coma.

GBH was a councilor in the first pres. and Oakes an apostle of God. Whatever. TBM's just refuse to see these things, nothing bothers them, I truly wonder how that is possible, to just block out things like that that are so very telling.

Think4U, you hit the nail on the head. The brainwash is intense and the leaders can do anything. After I spoke with my bishie recently, I let him know that apostates are those that fall from truth. My bishie still told me that if a member teaches the actual facts that I have seen like polyandry and such that its an apostacy and a member can be excommunicated. If polyandry happened, then how is one an apostate for teaching it to other members? Its the fucken truth!

I was glad I had that talk with my bishie, although others in here told me I owe them nothing. However, I owe it to myself. If they were true men of God, they would embrace truth regardless of what it says. They would encourage questions and research that went beyond just the watered down lessons we see each sunday. My meeting with the bishie only reconfirmed to me that my assumptions and research were that more true and valid than the TSCC and all the brain dead morg-bots that claim they have the fullness of the everylasting gospel.

The question really is...If we have a fullness of the everlasting gospel, then why do we need to surpress any of the facts? A fullness means that God thinks we are ready to learn and grow and take it to the next level. He introduced polygamy and polyandry and then he took it back??? Nutz! We are far more advanced in thinking and communication than ever before. We are ready to discuss all aspects of the doctrine and the history of this institution that claims it has ALL TRUTH.

Yeah, the truth will set you free alright. It will free you from the bondage of the brainwash.

Isn't it only considered polyandry if it is a "practice", i.e., consenting adults?

Seducing a man's wife while he's out of town is called adultery, telling her God commanded it is called lying, and even if she were freely consenting (which is hard to imagine given his position of power and the age differences involved), it would be bigamy, a crime.

Smith told Helen Marr Kimball that her whole family would make it to the CK if she would lie down with him. Even if they were unfaithful? That's not a principle of the gospel that I ever heard of even back then or now.

Smith told Emma that she would be killed by an angel if she did not let him screw, sorry, marry the young women that came into his household. Was he speaking as a man?

It's clear to me that they need a new apologetic phrase, "speaking as a lecher."

Anagrammy

I agree, but I think that the record shows that some of the men involved in Joe's polyandry were knowing participants.

Posing as a waning member, I debated one of the FAIRies via email a few months ago. I mentioned this very thing. His response was: "Emotion and spiritual experience are very similar. Most members get them confused often."

I responded: Can you give one a clear definition of how to recognize the spirit? Because if you can't and the spirit is the main source of God's method to give us truth, then it is a horribly confusing method. Somehow that speaks poorly of God.

He never commented on that, moving to other questions I had in the same email. I didn't push it.

GNPE had an incident when a ss teach presented false 'factual' information (not doctrine, not opinions, not policy; not even regarding procedures!);
I researched it & show UNDENIABLE evidence to leaders, asking that a correction should be made (so attendees wouldn't be mislead)... Outcome? (guess):

the ss teach was an officer at the Bank, I was a 'nobody'...

Leaders said 'It's not important'....

Therefore, TRUTH-FACTS Aren't Important inside the walls of tscc!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2011 12:54PM by guynoirprivateeye.

Why does the mormon church believe they have a monopoly on burning bosoms?

Science is showing they can repeat the spiritual type experience without religion.

There's the god helmet (though some have failed to duplicate Persinger's results, so take it with a grain of salt):

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.11/persinger.html


There is research on bosom-burning, called "elevation" here:
http://people.virginia.edu/~jdh6n/elevation.html

Which ties the elevation of oxytocin in the breast to feelings of moral elevations.


All major religions have a spiritual experience that is just like the burning of the bosom.

For fun, try to match these 8 religions to the following 20 quotes. The answer key is below:

Atheist, Buddhist, Catholic, Hindu, Islam, Mormon, New Age, Protestant, Universal Unitarian

1. “I felt a burning in my heart, and a great burden seemed to have left me.”

2. “But what can I say? How can I describe an experience so profound and so beautiful? Shall I say that it was the most blessed experience of my life? Shall I say that [God] touched my heart and gave me a feeling of peace I had not known before? Shall I describe the tears that flowed freely from my eyes, affirming my . . . faith, as I . . . beg[ed] [God's] blessings for myself and for those I love?”

3. “The sense I had of divine things, would often of a sudden kindle up, as it were, a sweet burning in my heart; an ardor of soul, that I know not how to express.”

4. “As I read these books in a . . . bookstore, . . . I felt a burning in my heart that I should come and investigate.”

5. “[Even as a child], [w]ithout understanding much about the complex [doctrine] . . . he was attracted to [church]. There he often felt a strong feeling of peace flowing through his body.”

6. “I was praying . . . when I felt a burning shaft of . . . love come through my head and into my heart.”

7. “I truly [sic] wanted to know [the truth]. After a few weeks, I stumbled onto [texts] which . . . answered my questions in a way that I had not heard of before. I read everything . . .and I even tried the experiment of asking [God] for . . . his divine love. After about 6 weeks, I felt a burning in my chest and a sensation that was unlike anything I had ever felt. It was pure happiness and peace. I knew then that [God] had sent His love to me.”

8. “A feeling of peace and certitude would tell me when I had found the answers and often after people would help me by pointing in the right direction.”

9. “We gave up a lot of things. What did I get in return? I received a feeling of peace, hope and security. I no longer lay awake at night worrying. I stopped cussing. I became much more honest in all aspects of my life. [God] has changed my heart and my life. My husband’s heart is changing also. We pray all the time and really feel [God’s] presence in our marriage. My perspective has changed. My view of life has changed about what is truly important.”

10. “Many women described a feeling of euphoria after they committed to following [God] . . . . One woman described a feeling of peace; she said: ‘It is like you are born again and you can start all over again, free from sin.’”

11. “A feeling of peace seemed to flow into me with a sense of togetherness . . . . . I felt very peaceful from inside and also felt [warmth] . . . .”

12. “I felt a burning sensation in my heart.”

13. “That inner light, that we all have or had at some time in our existence, was nearly burnt out for me. But in the [church] . . . I found a feeling of peace, inner solitude and quietness that I’d also found in reading the [text] and pondering over its meaning and trying to practice what it tells us.”

14. “For the first time I not only felt accountable for my past sins but I had to fight back tears. I knew that I had let down [God] [and] my family . . . . However, I also knew I was forgiven! [It] gave me a feeling of peace that I have never felt it in my whole life. I felt like I had a huge weight lifted off of me and that I was finally home and free . . . . I felt like a new person.”

15. “Every time I am there [at the church building], a feeling of peace overcomes me.”

16. “Every time I was with the [church members], I felt this warm feeling, a feeling of peace and for the first time in my life since my church-going days, I wanted to follow [God] . . . .”

17. “About 10 years ago, when Jenny and I decided to start a family, we began looking for a spiritual community for our kids. During my first service at [the church]. . . I was hooked. I recall the feeling of peace that I felt when I was attending [services].”

18. “The power of [God] came into me then. I had this warm and overwhelming feeling of peace and security. It’s hard to explain. I had to . . . stop myself from falling backward.”

19. “[The religious leader] looked into my eyes deeply for a moment, and I experienced a feeling of peace and love unlike anything I had ever experienced before.”

20. “[After praying,] [i]mmediately I was flooded with a deep feeling of peace, comfort, and hope.”

21. “I recently spent an afternoon on the northwestern shore of the Sea of Galilee, atop the mount where Jesus is believed to have preached his most famous sermon. . . . As I sat and gazed upon the surrounding hills gently sloping to an inland sea, a feeling of peace came over me. It soon grew to a blissful stillness that silenced my thoughts. In an instant, the sense of being a separate self—an “I” or a “me”—vanished. . . . The experience lasted just a few moments, but returned many times as I gazed out over the land where Jesus is believed to have walked, gathered his apostles, and worked many of his miracles.”

Answers: 1. Protestant; 2. Islam; 3. Protestant; 4. Catholic; 5. Hindu; 6. Catholic; 7. New Age; 8. Islam; 9. Protestant; 10. Islam; 11. Hindu; 12. Protestant; 13. Islam; 14. Catholic; 15. Buddhist; 16. Mormon; 17. Universal Unitarian; 18. Catholic; 19. Hindu; 20. Protestant; 21. Atheist

(From http://www.theamateurthinker.com/2011/02/how-can-we-find-truth-part-4/)

burning of the bosom and does it so badly none of these people know they were deceived.

Right.

Yes, good call.

Also, where was the prophet's (sic) Gift of Discernment? So, okay, BY was only speaking as a man when he said things so obviously and thoroughly vile to us today, but why should anyone honour let alone follow someone that discerned so badly *as a man*?

Would any TBM today follow or even look kindly upon BY had he not been Mormon?

Nailed It.

BY was a POS, yet he 'got by with it'...

There's 'no going back' over his record of speeches, talks, actions 'accomplishments' while he was the head of LDS, Inc. is there? BECAUSE YOU DON"T WANT TO STIR THAT POT!

'Manure gets smellier if you stir it' as they say...

'No, it wasn't Joseph Smith it was Brigham Young that was mistaken about the blacks'. Brigham young and every tbm for more than a century had warm fuzzies about the truthfulness of the inferiority of the blacks. That's some fucking liar of a ghost.

Every change in policy and doctrine ever made in the mormon church confirms the unreliability of warm fuzzies as guide for truth.