This book has only 3 ratings on Amazon, all negative and obviously by TBMs. Reading their comments is infuriating, as they claim "Mormons don't believe any of these things!" (polygamy, becoming gods, etc).

Let's post some 5-star comments of our own, shall we??

http://www.amazon.com/Unsaintly-Saints-Mormons-Their-ebook/dp/B0029ZASBK/ref=kinw_tu_recs_5?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2

Let's see what he has to say.

like the JoD. There are some rebuttals from experts like Coe and the Smithsonian, and some from "Mormonism Unvailed" that will be considered 'anti' by TBMs.

There is little to no editorializing from the author. I've already found one little gem from BY about getting your own planet and I'll have to type it up.

It's hard to negotiate on Kindle when there are no chapters or divisions. Partly I'm just not an expert, but I can't find my way around.

It's obvious that the comments left on Amazon are from people who haven't read it.

I'd give this to someone who was investigating the church. It is mostly just self damning info.

I cant post a comment... couple quotes I found

"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret... It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know...that he was once a man like us... " - Joseph Smith, the Journal of Discourses 6:3-4,Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith 342-345

"...if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, ...he is justified; he cannot commit adultery... And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law... he [is] justified." Doctrine and Covenants 132:61-62.

I posted. Just cut and pasted the review and added a parenthetical such as this after every contention (TRUE: See BY's Journal of Discourses)...etc.

EZ Pleazy.

Ron

The Mormon Church did at one time teach that Adam was the father of Jesus. It was in the temple ceremony lecture during the time of Brigham Young:

"Father Adam's oldest son (Jesus the Savior) who is the heir of the family is Father Adams first begotten in the spirit World, who according to the flesh is the only begotten as it is written. (In his divinity he having gone back into the spirit world, and come in the spirit to Mary and she conceived ..."

(" Journal of L. John Nuttall," vol. 1, pp. 18-21, taken from a typed copy at Brigham Young University).

I often wonder if there is a bottom to the sewer of Mormonism.

While there are no direct quotes of Joseph teaching any Adam-God Doctrine, you must remember that Brigham Young attributes all that he knew about it to Joseph Smith. Also, the Nauvoo Expositor, while famous for beating Joseph Smith up concerning his polygamy, it also mentions his heretical teachings that God comes down and becomes mortal AGAIN to bring forth mankind (clearly a pure Adam-God teaching).


Just say'in.

“Talk about polygamy! There is no true philosopher on the face of the earth but what will admit that such a system, properly carried out according to the order of heaven, is far superior to monogamy for the raising of healthy, robust children!”
(Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 13, p. 317)

The polygamy of God and Jesus was also taught

Orson Hyde Journal of Discourses v2 p81
"How was it with Mary and Martha, and other women that followed him [Jesus]? In old times, and it is common in this day, the women, even as Sarah, called their husbands Lord; the word Lord is tantamount to husband in some languages, master, lord, husband, are about synonymous... When Mary of old came to the sepulchre on the first day of the week, instead of finding Jesus she saw two angels in white, 'And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou?' She said unto them,' Because they have taken away my Lord,' or husband, 'and I know not where they have laid him.' And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.' Is there not here manifested the affections of a wife. These words speak the kindred ties and sympathies that are common to that relation of husband and wife"

Orson Pratt The Seer p 172
“... it will be seen that the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion was a polygamist... the Messiah chose... by marrying many honorable wives himself, to show to all future generations that he approbated the plurality of wives under the Christian dispensation in which His polygamist ancestors lived.
“We have clearly show that God the Father had a plurality of wives, one or more being in eternity, by whom He begat our spirits as well as the spirit of Jesus His First Born, and another being upon the earth by whom He begat the tabernacle of Jesus, as his only begotten in this world. We have also proved most clearly that the Son followed the example of his Father, and became the great Bridegroom to whom Kings’ daughters and many honorable wives were to be married. We have also proved that both God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ inherit their wives in eternity as well as in time... And then it would be so shocking to the modesty of the very pious ladies of Christendom to see Abraham and his wives, Jacob and his wives, Jesus and his honorable wives, all eating occasionally at the same table, and visiting one another, and conversing about their numerous children and their kingdoms. Oh, ye delicate ladies of Christendom, how can you endure such a scene as this?... If you do not want your morals corrupted, and your delicate ears shocked, and your pious modesty put to the blush by the society of Polygamists and their wives, do not venture near the New Earth; for polygamists will be honored there, and will be among the chief rules in that Kingdom.”

I was just reading comments there posted when this one popped up, finally someone who has apparently read this book and many others:


Your post: May 2, 2011 9:45:23 AM PDT
Sarah Kimball says:
I just happen to be a mormon and the things written in this book are absolutely true. Have you even read it? Mormons do not know the truth of their own history, and how very much the history the doctrines once taught by prophets have been changed. I have been through a real trial of my faith learning all of these things, but I have chosen to stay in the church and do the best I can to be obedient and just believe, regardless of all of the things like this. If you do really think this book is full of lies, please read the 26 vol. of the Journal of Discourses, as you will find most all of these things referred to there. In my studies I read them all, as we owned them, and like I said, my faith was completely shaken for a while, but I just decided it best to put these issues on a shelf and be obedient, and that God will help me understand in the next life. Like BK Packer said, "Many of the things in church history that are true are not faith promoting or useful", and I completely agree with him there, especially knowing he will be out next prophet.

Thanks, everyone. I wrote a review also but it has not appeared yet...

"We don't believe men can become gods, we dont believe people live on the sun and moon, we most definately do not believe in poligamy, and we dont beieve that that is better for childeren. we do not believe that the Book of Mormon is a higher or more important book than the Bible either. I'm sorry, but Mr. Brad K. Berner needs to go and talk to an ACTUAL MEMBER and find out what being Mormon is REALLY all about. i only read the description of the book and im outraged by the kind of things that are said in it. i cant even imagine what kind of stuff is in the real book!! the only difference between believing in the Mormon faith is that you also believer the book of Mormon, and you live by the Word of Wisdom (no drinking, smoking, tatoos, body piercings...etc. basically nothing thats bad for your body). we may be different than you, but that doesnt mean you should go around spreading rumors about us and saying things that just arent true. i dont think the reasearch for this book was done correctly or i think the information the author found was fake or he misunderstood it. why do people have to be so stereotypical like this?? Mormons are respectable people who are held up to high standards, not people who think of themselves as better than anyone else or believe in poligamy. we dont drink or smoke or do drugs. if you have a Mormon friend, your lucky. maybe if Mr. Brad K. Berner would go and get one, he could learn a thing or two from them!!!
thats all i have to say.
good bye.
~Obsidian Rose


Wow... these weren't even controversial assertions when I was TBM. Do some newer LDS folks really agree with this? Is this whitewashing by leaders???

HH =)

Those of us who are over 35 heard a lot of stuff growing up that they don't say anymore.

As a teen in the 70's I most definitely heard that we could become gods.
Kolob.
That Polygamy would return in the millenium.
That Black people were representatives of Satan.
That people were born into circumstances according to their actions in the pre-existence.
That all other churches were totally false.
That anytime there was a question regarding Bible teachings that it should be compared with modern revelation and the Book of Mormon.

I was a teen in the 90's, and I heard this stuff, but it was mostly whispers and gems that I would glean from the older folk. It wasn't taught to me in any official capacity, and church leaders avoided the topics as often as possible.

I can definitely see the whitewashing taking more and more effect as the years go on and older generations die. The church's beliefs are becoming more pristine, and the membership is following suit. Thank God for the internet.

It truly shocks me how completely different the church is now from 150 years ago, and yet how insistent TBMs are that it's the same.

Happy_Heretic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Wow... these weren't even controversial assertions
> when I was TBM. Do some newer LDS folks really
> agree with this? Is this whitewashing by
> leaders???
>
> HH =)


I had almost the exact same response. Really? Since when don't mormons believe that men will become gods? Has this person been to the temple yet?

Heck that ebook was the best $2.00 I'd eaver spent. :-)

most mormons are as bad as catholics. they want to be told what to believe and when to believe it. the truth is what it is, like it or not. its really sad.

especially the American Catholics! sorry no comparison!

The day most Mormons are NOM, feel free to compare.

We got it from a one star rating to 3.5 stars, but let's add more reviews and see if we can boost it even more! (Mine STILL hasn't posted yet... and it was totally clean and polite...hmmm)

Younger Mormons who have not done a lot of independent reading will not recognize many of these teachings. Most of these teachings though, actually are doctrinally correct within the present Mormon Church.

Some teachings, although taught by previous Mormon prophets, can not be considered present Mormon doctrine. For instance; Brigham Young did believe and teach that Adam was God the Father. Subsequent prophets have effectively squelched that doctrine, and it would not be fair to say that it is a current Mormon belief.

There are probably many Mormons such as the previous reviewer, who do not know that much of this stuff really is current Mormon doctrine. It is almost never discussed anymore. The Church has really "dumbed down" what they teach to the current crop of Mormons. (I say this, having been an active Mormon for 50 years.)

Some of these topics, even the "living Mormon prophets" could not give a definitive answer on whether they qualify as current beliefs of the Church. They haven't removed it from the scriptures, but they try to distance themselves from it when they can. For instance; dark skin being a curse from God, white skin an indication of righteousness, and polygamy.

All of the topics brought up are valid and interesting, in that they do reflect things that have been, or are currently believed by Mormons who are knowledgeable about their religion. Those well read in Mormonism will find much familiar territory, along with a bit of "further light and knowledge" here. Overall, a worthwhile read for someone interested in Mormon esoterica.

Examining the 14 points of Following the Prophet (youtube) is a Great Start as to how MoIndoctrination takes over;
IMHO, it started with 'Correlation'.