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Posted by: nate ( )
Date: May 15, 2011 09:38AM

Martin Harris was anything but a skeptical witness. He was known by many of his peers as an unstable, gullible and superstitious man. Reports assert that he and the other witnesses never literally saw the gold plates, but only an object said to be the plates, covered with a cloth. Here's some accounts that show the superstitious side of Martin Harris:

Ronald W. Walker, "Martin Harris: Mormonism's Early Convert," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 19 (Winter 1986): 34-35. "Once while reading scripture, he reportedly mistook a candle's sputtering as a sign that the devil desired him to stop. Another time he excitedly awoke from his sleep believing that a creature as large as a dog had been upon his chest, though a nearby associate could find nothing to confirm his fears. Several hostile and perhaps unreliable accounts told of visionary experiences with Satan and Christ, Harris once reporting that Christ had been poised on a roof beam."

John A. Clark letter, August 31, 1840 in EMD, 2: 271: "No matter where he went, he saw visions and supernatural appearances all around him. He told a gentleman in Palmyra, after one of his excursions to Pennsylvania, while the translation of the Book of Mormon was going on, that on the way he met the Lord Jesus Christ, who walked along by the side of him in the shape of a deer for two or three miles, talking with him as familiarly as one man talks with another." According to two Ohio newspapers, shortly after Harris arrived in Kirtland he began claiming to have "seen Jesus Christ and that he is the handsomest man he ever did see. He has also seen the Devil, whom he described as a very sleek haired fellow with four feet, and a head like that of a Jack-ass." Vogel,EMD 2: 271, note 32.

The Reverend John A. Clark, who knew Harris, said Martin "had always been a firm believer in dreams, and visions and supernatural appearances, such as apparitions and ghosts, and therefore was a fit subject for such men as Smith and his colleagues to operate on." Lorenzo Saunders said Harris was a "great man for seeing spooks." Presbyterian minister Jesse Townsend of Palmyra called Harris a "visionary fanatic."


http://www.mormonthink.com/witnessesweb.htm#harris


Mrs. Abigail Harris: a sister-in-law of Martin Harris:

"... Martin Harris and Lucy Harris, his wife, were at my house [early part of winter, 1828]. In conversation with the Mormonites, she [Lucy Harris] observed that she wished her husband would quit them, as she believed it all false and a delusion. To which I heard Mr. Harris reply: 'What if it is a lie; if you will let me alone I will make money out of it!' I was both an eye- and ear-witness of what has been above stated, which is now fresh in my memory, and I speak the truth and lie not, God being my witness."


Lucy Harris: wife of Martin Harris:

"Whether the Mormon religion be true or false, I leave the world to judge; for its effects on Martin Harris have been to make him more cross, turbulent and abusive to me. His whole object was to make money out of it. I will give a proof of this. One day at Peter Harris' house (Abigail Harris' husband) I told him he had better leave the company of the Smiths, as their religion was false. To this he replied, "If you would let me alone, I could make money out of it.' It is in vain for the Mormons to deny these facts, as they are well known to most of his former neighbors."

The field David [Whitmer] plowed

David plowed a field in less time than it normally took him and jumped to the conclusion that it was a sign from God, a miracle. His father planted the suggestion that "there must be an overruling hand in this" so David immediately concluded that there must be a supernatural explanation to his rapid work – the only other explanation David or his father could think of. This is odd and disturbing on many levels since David plowed the field himself. He based his supernatural explanation on nothing other than the time he spent working in the field vs the time he remembers he did it in the past - and his father suggesting an unworldly explanation. Those familiar with statistics call that superstitious practice, counting the hits and ignoring the misses. Church leaders like to tell this story with an air of objectivity, though none is present.

Of course there are plenty more plausible explanations. He was likely excited about the trip he was going to make, to actually meet the prophet, and so he worked faster than normal. There are many other variables which can't be examined such as the density of his crops that year, how much help his father was to him, when he started, how good of a job he did this year compared to other years, how much time it actually took him to do it in prior years vs how much time he remembered that it took, etc.

http://www.mormonthink.com/witnessesweb.htm

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Posted by: dimmesdale ( )
Date: May 15, 2011 10:00AM

for this information.

Many early saints were also desperate. Particularly the handcart pioneers who often came from Europe where many were starving. America was a great hope, and mormonism gave them a chance to leave their extreme poverty behind.

When we hear about the extreme conditons of the pioneers, we might not realize that many of those conditions were often better than the ones they were fleeing.

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Posted by: ipseego ( )
Date: May 15, 2011 02:13PM

Probably not more of an economic factor than for all the other emigrants. Most of them were not Mormon.

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Posted by: jessica ( )
Date: May 15, 2011 04:44PM

Yes, there was an economic factor. Working in horrible factories day in/day out for nothing, child labor, the whole works--there were no human rights laws then. They were leaving for a better life and ended up in a nightmare polygamist fringe.

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Posted by: Stray Mutt ( )
Date: May 15, 2011 10:47AM


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Posted by: nate ( )
Date: May 15, 2011 11:00AM

Stray Mutt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> n/t

That is a great question. As I dug into Mormon history faith and gullibility merged. Lots of TBMs fall for some of the craziest business deals and fringe beliefs. Years of trying to explain the craziness in Mormon doctrine and history probably makes TBMs vulnerable to being duped.

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Posted by: nebularry ( )
Date: May 15, 2011 11:05AM

As I see it, things have not changed much. People are as gullible as ever - unfortunately. There are people who imagine the image of Jesus in a pancake and believe it's a sign from God. They still consult psychics and New Age gurus. They believe the Mayan calendar predicts the end of the world. They still convert to Mormonism. Oh, wait, that includes a lot of us, doesn't it?

Well, yes, there are some glaring examples credulousness and gullibility in the early converts but, really, have things changed that much? I think not.

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Posted by: nate ( )
Date: May 15, 2011 11:54AM

nebularry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As I see it, things have not changed much. People
> are as gullible as ever - unfortunately. There are
> people who imagine the image of Jesus in a pancake
> and believe it's a sign from God. They still
> consult psychics and New Age gurus. They believe
> the Mayan calendar predicts the end of the world.
> They still convert to Mormonism. Oh, wait, that
> includes a lot of us, doesn't it?
>
> Well, yes, there are some glaring examples
> credulousness and gullibility in the early
> converts but, really, have things changed that
> much? I think not.


There are a lot of people who were born into Mormonism who leave. When people are born in the covenant they do not have a chance to show whether they are gullible or not until after they have become their own person. The ten million Mormons who do not attend are a pretty good indication that most Mormons today are not gullible. There are also a lot of people who do not buy into Jesus pancakes, psychics, and New Age gurus. Gullibility does not seem to be a problem for everyone.

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Posted by: Heresy ( )
Date: May 15, 2011 01:36PM

of the ex Mormon converts on this board.

Most were mislead. They didn't even tell the Europeans about polygamy until after years of heavy immigration.

To this day, they try to pass off the Book of Mormon as representing the church, when it has NOTHING of the odder doctrines in it.

They lie to people to get them to join. That isn't the fault of the victims.

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Posted by: jessica ( )
Date: May 15, 2011 04:41PM

Many of the early saints weren't necessarily gullible, but held the same world view. Easy to convince someone who believes the same things you do.

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