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Posted by: Particles of Faith ( )
Date: May 15, 2011 02:06PM

DW and I attended our Methodist church service this morning and the minister spoke on tithing. Now, I know that Mormons did not invent the concept of tithing nor did they even invent the idea that everyone ought to do it. However, in Methodism it has always been presented as a "God's minimum" goal--although interpreted by the congregation as a "stretch" goal. Today was different. We got hit with as hard a tithing sermon as I have heard in TSCC. 1. Not paying tithing is a sin. 2. Money needs to be set aside for tithing before anything else (fortunately food for one's children was a legitimate exception).

These concepts can be easily ignored but what bothered me the most was the statement that the "church" was more important than job or, get this, family. This was too close to the church I have just resigned from.

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Posted by: rmw ( )
Date: May 15, 2011 02:10PM

$$$$$...it reminds me of the story in the Bible where Jesus preached to the multitude and the passed the plate around to collect offerings...oh wait...that never happened.

Most churches seem to want your money in a bad way. It leaves a bad taste.

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Posted by: nomomomo ( )
Date: May 15, 2011 02:13PM

Do they still want 10% or is it just what you can? I am always curious, not like I'm going to join any religion soon, but I do remember going to methodist services with friends or for girl scouts, and they were quite similar, at least the main service.

Maybe not the luncheon and coffee afterwards. Did he give a reason why the pressure? Where does their money go? Do they help the less fortunate with it? Maybe with the economy they have more need.

This is interesting, and kind of sad too. Guilt was so much a part of tscc and of course one would want to escape that.

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Posted by: Particles of Faith ( )
Date: May 15, 2011 02:26PM

Definitely 10%.

The money goes to a variety of places some of which are perfectly understandable.

1. Local expenses--power/water bills, salaries, etc.
2. Outreach--no objection to this either; money is donated to various local charitable causes in the community
3. Apportionments--this is where it gets dicey. This is money that is taxed from the local congregation and gets sent to the higher levels to support the overall infrastructure (seems reasonable) but also to support various political agendas (sound familiar?) For example, the Methodist church donated money to oppose the local University's use of their long term symbol. Regardless of where one stands on this why is church money used for this? Way too much money is taxed for this purpose with no good accounting for it.

There are also additional offerings for disasters which aren't a cause for complaint.

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Posted by: WiserWomanNow ( )
Date: May 15, 2011 02:31PM

Necessities for ourselves and our family must come first.

There is a time to share with others less fortunate than ourselves as well as to contribute financially to the church of our choice (if we attend one.) That time is AFTER our responsibilities to ourselves and our family!

If other churches begin harping about tithing in these difficult financial times, they will lose members just as TSCC is.

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Posted by: nickerickson ( )
Date: May 15, 2011 05:14PM

It's a fact, church is to come first - no matter the religion. You can cut it, slice it, and dice it, and it always comes up church and then your personal well being. Church first and you will be blessed. That is why I don't subscribe to ANY organized religion.

Pay, Pray, Obey - for everyone.

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Posted by: Fetal Deity ( )
Date: May 15, 2011 05:20PM

" ... [M]y mind became somewhat partial to the Methodist sect, and I felt some desire to be united with them ...."
(Pearl of Great Price | JS-History 1:8)

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Posted by: nickerickson ( )
Date: May 15, 2011 06:36PM

Fetal Deity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> " ... y mind became somewhat partial to the
> Methodist sect, and I felt some desire to be
> united with them ...."
> (Pearl of Great Price | JS-History 1:8)


Thanks. I completely forgot about that comment from JS.

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Posted by: american jesus ( )
Date: May 15, 2011 07:48PM

Maybe the pastor has a Mercedes payment coming up in the near future? just a thought

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Posted by: littlekiwi ( )
Date: May 15, 2011 07:46PM

Tithing is an interesting subject to consider. I have just started doing some indepth research into what Jesus taught about tithing in the Bible, and it is interesting to note that tithing for Israel is not the same as the tithe that we hear of today - in fact tithing was rarely money.

There were three tithes in the Old Covenant. More often tithes were the crops, the produce of the soil was to be tithed, grains, the fruit of the trees, every year new wine and oil, the firstborn of their herds and flocks (Leviticus 27:30-33).

The famous verse in Malachi 3:10 “Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this,” says the Lord of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven, and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows.” ..has been greatly misused for God's blessing to come to his people. A closer look at this verse in the context shows that it has nothing to do with wealth or material blessings. We first find this same term used by God back in Genesis 7:11, where the windows of heaven were open and rain contributed to the flood, as the fountains of the deep were broken open. In Genesis 8:2 it says the windows of heaven were stopped and the rain from heaven was restrained. Isaiah 24:18 it also mentions the windows from on high; this phrase is consistently used to refer to water. In Genesis it was a judgment. In Malachi 3 it was to be a blessing on their crops. The nation lived by their agriculture (Husbandry) and depended upon the rain. God's blessing had to do with his provision of water; no rain and they would starve. If they did not give God their tithes, which was part of the blessing in the Mosaic covenant, God would bring a curse on them, and the ground would not yield food because he would not allow it to rain.

The Church (TSCC and other modern day churches) teaches that we are to obey the law of tithing. Tithes were not gifts, they were taxes, tithes were given in addition to other numerous offerings which ended up to be over 22% (not just 10%). Under the law if you were only giving 10 percent on your tithes you would still be robbing God. One tithe was used to support the Levites (Numbers 18:21-32), who were not allowed to own property like the other tribes of Israel. However, this tithe from the people brought to the Levitical priests was not just money. The goods the Levites received would provide their living for their work in the tabernacle. They also were to tithe on part of the goods that they received, and were to dedicate to the Lord a tenth to the office of the high priest (Numbers 18:21-28). It was the Levites who were to “bring up the tenth of the tithes to the house of our God, to the chambers of the storehouse” (Nehemiah 10:38). The Malachi passage that so many use to prove we are to tithe is not rebuking the people, he is rebuking the Levites for keeping the tithe that went to them. Church leaders use this verse on the people to be faithful, but they are really pointing at themselves - except they are biblically ignorant to recognize what it's actually saying. 1 Timothy 1:5-7 “Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.” The New Testament teaches grace giving, tithing was not a freewill cheerful giving, it was a commandment in Moses' law to a nation under God, Israel. Nowhere in the New Testament does it require any obligation or a legal portion of ones income.

When you start looking into the subject of tithing in more depth it is incredibly eye-opening. Growing up in the Church, I always just accepted their explanation for everything (as every "good" Mormon does), but when you actually delve deeper and research it from a wide range of resources (not just "church approved" material), it is amazing how wrong they got it...

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Posted by: exmo99 ( )
Date: May 15, 2011 08:11PM

THIS ^^^^

Ask a pastor why they don't require all three tithes? The answer - Tithing is an OT law for Israel and has nothing to do with Christianity or the Gentiles. But you won't hear that. You should support your church should you go, but NOTHING $$$ is required. Never. God cares nothing for the stuff - he wants your heart.

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Posted by: Davo ( )
Date: May 15, 2011 08:22PM

Tithing in Mormonism has certainly morphed into being a commandment. Someone said that in Mormonism "you must pay a fee
to attain the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom"--the "fees" of course, are the required tithes and offerings. In other words, paying for salvation. I guess if the Catholics can charge $$ for absolving one's sins, the Mormons can charge for salvation...

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