so I came out about how I feel about the LDS church about 3 months ago. I am black listed by most in my family. In particular, my oldest brother, continually announces to me and all in the family publically how his testimony is going stronger than ever.

He and I were having dinner tonight at our parents house. He is 53 and I am 40. He states to me at dinner that his testimony has gotten stronger since I came out. I told him that I am only doing my brotherly duty to protect my family. I said, if a theif was breaking in my car, I would hope you would let me know and likewise, that is what I am doing for you.

He said that I hadn't told him anything to sway him and that only the weak fall from the church. I laughed and said, first of all, you won't listen. Second, I said that its not that I am weak, its that you are foolish. This guy is a master validictorian and has a high position in a big oil corp. I have a masters too but at least I am analytical enough to question ppl who try to brain wash.

Why the hell do ppl like this take the truth selectively and shun those who try to stimulate thinking? I thought at BYU, which we both grad from, it says the glory of god is intelligence? Its amazing how ignorant one can be with all the school and experience backing their narrow minded thought patterns.

At best, just say; "I'm glad it's still working for you." and turn the conversation to something neutral. You've given him your warning and all continuing to flog the subject will do is cause him to dig in his heels. Let the information you've given him sit and percolate and ignore him.

Just my two cents worth. :)

Chances are he'll only listen if he genuinely wants to take a closer look at things for himself. As far as I know, there's no effective way of getting someone else to that point. It's a journey people have to make on their own.

I agree that it's probably best to stick to neutral topics. If he tries to bring it up, just agree to disagree.

I agree with Rebeckah and faboo. You're not going to change your brother's mind with logic or facts because he doesn't want to respond to those things.

It's okay to agree to disagree. It's okay to disengage.

Seriously, he is narrow-minded. He is acting all pompous and speaking of his testimony getting stronger. Probably in reality he is saying that to make other family members feel that they are safe with him.....the TBM that he is. Just ignore the ignorant. Don't even discuss his head up his A___ attitude. Glad you are one who will analyze all Mormon information and not be "scared" as your brother is to do it.

You have something he lacks.



Courage.


And you have used that courage to free yourself.

Your brother dares not.

1+

I think if your brother is saying things like "testimony has gotten stronger then ever", he's probably scared and trying to convince himself that he still one.

Just sayin.' He's probably scared of you, you evil apostate.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2011 01:51AM by badseed.

I've seen it enough to know that people who really go on the defensive when you leave the church are not worried about you, they're scared for themselves. Those are the ones who are having some scary thoughts like, "what if it really isn't true?" Just the thought scares the beejeezus out of them. They want their testimonkeys to be secure but they know they're having doubts. So they squelch it by attacking the evil apostates.

People who are secure in their beliefs are usually the ones who will take a "whatever works for you" approach. They're not afraid. It got back to me when I left that my SIL said she did not want me anywhere near her kids. I thought that was awfully funny. If she was so sure her kids had testimonies, why would she be afraid to have them around me. (It's not like they were little kids). But the fact is that she was afraid of her kids wondering why I wasn't mormon and possibly asking me. She couldn't have had much belief that their faith was strong.

I wouldn't put up with his arrogance just because he may not respond outwardly the way you would hope or "to keep the peace".

I'd tell him that "I thought the one true church, God's Church, would have the effect of making one a better person. Frankly, brother, I don't see that effect taking place in you. 'By their fruits...', I've heard say..." Then you might add something about the 11th Article of Faith that he's supposed to adhere to.

If he's willing to publically, nail you to the apostate cross, why not respond in kind?--and give him something to think about at the same time--as well as those listening in.

You continue to roll over, he'll likely continue his insults. He's simply building himself up at your expense. Do you really think your bully brother will stop doing this if you don't respond? What about the "establish boundaries" dogma preached here on RFM? There are other ways to go fer sure. This is just one.

And it's pretty darned effective if you can stick to it. People really hate to be ignored.

It is also helpful in establishing or keeping a relationship that is based on something other than the church. It would force his brother to converse about something *else* (hopefully.)

Bullys don't act like normal people. The more they're ignored the louder and more insistant they become. I dealt with a few in my time. It doesn't seem to be working with ontheDownLow, the OP, otherwise he wouldn't be here complaining about his bully brother.

But I've dealt with other bullies and, yes, they've needed to be confronted.

Still, I'm not sure this brother is being a bully. He sounds scared to me. And I think that refusing to engage merely makes brother look like a fool if he keeps it up while leaving onthedownlow with the high ground for being mature. Yes, it could just encourage brother to yap louder -- at which point I'd refuse to be around brother myself. But that's just me -- everyone deals with these types of conflicts in their own way.

I may have misunderstood OP's intent. I assumed he was looking for suggestions. You, Rebeckah, offered your's along with others, I offered mine. OP is a smart guy. Why not allow him the choice without running my suggestion through your filter. He knows better than either of us what may be worth trying in his particular situation.

Bro. certainly SOUNDS like every bully I've encountered.

>He states to me at dinner that his testimony has gotten stronger since I came out

So, this means that his testimony was weaker when YOU were a Mormon? Why? Why would the opinion of his little brother mean that much to him?

Is it that he is fearful? "Oh, my! My brother was a TBM, like me! Now he has stopped believing! Help! I must shove my fingers in my ears and START SINGING AND SHOUTING VERY, VERY LOUDLY!!! to drown out the voices of truth that would sway my testimony!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2011 02:32AM by matt.

Him - My testimony has gotten stronger since you left

You - My LIFE has gotten immeasurably better since I left

Thanks guys. I like all ur comments. Funny thing is, I am the youngest of 3 brow. We all served missions. I looked up to my bros so much. I modeled my life after them. I am unemployed with a masters in business. No criminal record great experience, and this bro wont help me with a job when he is high up in a fortune 50 company. I remember the church teaches that charity starts at home. I got 2 kids. It hurts that my family is so hypocritical and self righteous.