I am moving this post up front from where it appears as one of my responses to RAG's post, I copied this link from RAG's post as well, so you can listen to the songs if you want to:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Cyprianophobia#g/u

I finally got a chance to listen to at least most of the songs. My favorite is "I Believe" , because it is funny and yet %100 true.

Now I am going to be a bit critical and will probably take hell for it here on this board, I am okay with that, but I think a couple of the songs, or at least phrases of some songs, should have and could have easily been replaced with something SO much better. I do not like the parts that are just outright crude, nor do I understand why anything needed to be included that was not absolutely true. If you listen to the songs , you will know what I speak of.

Where is the song about gold digging and the stone in the hat? That is funny, true, with no need to be crude.

Where is one about polygamy and polyandry, completely true, that could have been so very funny and again true? Where is the angel with the flaming sword, or did I miss that somewhere?

When they include falsehoods they lose credibility. When the are very crude, many people just turn off to it. I do not like it myself, at all.

Where is the song about Zelph or the BOA fraud, or the Kinderhook plates, all true and hysterically funny.

And where is the song about the civilization that wiped itself out so completely there is not even a trace of DNA left, or maybe more simply where is the song about native americans turning white?

There is my critique, go ahead , hammer me, but that is what I honestly think could have made it far better and helped it to reach a far broader audience. Not saying that a lot of it is not very very excellent, like "Turn it Off" and "A Latter Day" and some of the others.

I just think it could have been done better, and they certainly have the talent to have done it any way they chose. Maybe America just likes crudeness, but even if they do, they could have learned so much more about the real TRUTHS behind all of the teachings of mo'ism. Now go ahead, slam me, I can take it. Those are just my feelings.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2011 04:56PM by think4u.

the whole thing is gay as hell.

Please explain more, what do you mean? I take it you are active mormon? If so, please just listen to the song, "I Believe" and tell me what you find offensive about it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2011 04:50PM by think4u.

I just hate musicals, lol.
I think all of them are gay as hell.
I'm an exmo.

Thanks for the reply, we are all so different, I just LOVE musicals!
But not everything about this one, not at all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2011 04:53PM by think4u.

a direct shot at Mormonism. They didn't want to sound whiny, or like a bunch of fundamentalists who pick on other small sects. They have to stay upbeat to sell it.

Most of their target audience doesn't know any details of the doctrine or history, and they don't want to and wouldn't remember them.

I think the style of humor is a very deliberate and useful attack vehicle. It's far more entertaining than anything one of us would do. That's why they got the 14 Tony nominations.

I don't understand crudeness either. I suppose that is because I am an old woman. I suspect it is supposed to endear them to the hip young folks.

Whatever it takes to get their messages across is fine with me. They are doing more damage than we've done, at least as far as broad audiences from all areas. They've bumped the LDS church from its perch on Google in one fell swoop, while we've worked decades to get a foothold.

I'm pretty sure there are lessons in their approach for us, not the other way around.

I agree...I for one understand the futility or Mormonism is Africa...that said I couldn't sit through that BOM Musical

#1. I HATE musicals, drive me nuts
#2. I know people can communicate without profanity.
#3 Lastly for one who Believes in a Supreme Being, I don't like the profanity, I made the mistake of listening to that one South African song.

Yeah the So. African song, and JS American Moses, I think it was called, were the worst.

But I love musicals, and I think the song " I believe " is just great. "Me and you ( but mostly me)" was really good too. Just really funny.

I think it was such a great chance to let the world really see mormonism as it is, no need for falsehoods ,the truth is strange and funny enough, and the crudeness is just offensive, at least to me it was.

The "Joseph Smith, American Moses," makes perfect sense. Apparently the mishies get to Uganda with their naive MTC brainwashed expectations. They get there and find AIDS, dysentery, female mutilation, weird myths like having sex with a baby will cure AIDS, etc. That's where Hasa Diga Ebowai comes from--they're telling the Mishes they don't care about their Sal Tlay Ka Siti golden boy story, can it cure AIDS? So the mishies kinda embellish the story, make it relevant to the locals. Hence, they're the ones who come up with the tales that "American Moses" is based on and the song is a celebration of the great Joseph Smith and why god chose him. The theater goers aren't going to think "wow, I didn't know that about Joseph Smith." They get the storyline.

Well at least that makes sense, now, thanks for that NR.

I tend to agree. I love making fun of Mormonism, and I think a lot of the concepts on South Park are great, but the crudeness ruins it. That may be one piece of mormon culture I haven't been able to let go of yet, but it rubs me wrong when it gets that base. (A little crudeness can go a long way, a lot of crudeness can go to the toilet)

Especially concerning art where the artist purposely crosses boundaries of decency.

For what it's worth, I don't believe the main messages of the musical are about TSCC. "I believe," "American prophet," and "turn it off" are the only songs intended to satirize the church directly. The rest of the musical satirizes certain themes that are more widely observed:

1. White man's burden - basically the idea that our middle class American values/religion can translate into something a war-torn and AIDS-plagued world could use. This is a rebuke of our international "spreading democracy" and the general approach so many Xians take of bringing a happy smile and the good news that people are "saved" to people on death's door. When what they really need is one pill a day to stay alive.

- to meet this challenge, Cunningham eventually just starts making stuff up, pretending like his pre-existing religion actually has something to offer the people.

2. Puritan guilt and emotional repression. The "Hell dream" song could basically apply to any religion that makes you feel like you are under constant condemnation from God.

The "falsehoods" in crazy songs like "American Moses" are not supposed to be literal. We are missing the dialogue from those parts, but i am pretty sure the mission president explains that those are not the doctrines. But, who cares? They helped the people end female circumcision, so they must be God's truth, right?

Incidentally, I believe the wild lies Cunningham makes up about JS and Brigham young are veiled references to polygamy, as rape of children and disregard for the rights of women.

The playwrights allow you to see Mormonism through the eyes of those two missionaries, believers. The point, as far as mormonism goes, appears to be that even taking things in the light most favorable to TSCC, it is still ridiculous.

:)...

hmmm again interesting...!

"Two by two", "baptize me" and "You and me, but mostly me" and "A Latter Day" and "Sal ta laka siti" certainly seem to be about mo'ism to me.

I do understand what you are saying about "doing the baby" issue, but I hate it. Why not just about lust for young teenagers? That is far bad enough.

And can anyone explain the thing about the frog, why a frog? and then applied to BY's nose. It was just gross to me. I just really did not get how that was funny or applied to anything, except maybe magical thinking, which would have been far better done with the stone in the hat, gold digging and then transforming into translating ancient gold plates. Just my opinion, again.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2011 05:46PM by think4u.

I'm with you on two by two. I would argue that baptize me would apply to any "teacher" who gets off on the power they have over their student, and any student who sees getting close to their teacher as a way to get ahead. I would argue that the SLC one fits into what I said about ethnocentricity.
For some reason I cannot recall two by two right offhand. I'll have to listen to it again.

Latter day is a VERY generic musical finale. And the attitude it teaches - live in the present - is no where near the LDS attitude. I think it reflects their new religion.

You are right that there were some I was not considering. But I hear the more general indictments a lot louder than mockery of TSCC.

Having watched quite a few south park episodes, I think the frog was just their juvenile humor. Meaningless.

Funny, you had little criticism about the play other than some subjective statement about crudity but had lots to say about what the play didn't include.

It is a Broadway Musical, they are NEVER going to be able to cram everything the LDS can be ridiculed for into one show and have an entertaining coherent show.

Honestly, I think anyone that thought this was going to be a vendetta piece that did nothing but try to hurl accusations had unreasonable expectations. This was not a play marketed to bitter or angry exmormons. This was a play targeted to entertain, at the LDS's expense, Broadway Theater goers that likely have little or no experience with Mormonism and are not at all interested in going to see an attack on the LDS.

I for one like the contrast between the LDS sterile way of life and the crude real world. That was a point in the play, how the missionaries were equipped to handle the problems and attitudes of the real world, and trust me, I have seen much cruder things in the real world than what was in those songs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2011 05:56PM by MJ.

Many of the greatest artists did things to be intentionally crude and "out there."

I personally see them, as well as my favorite British comedy troupe, as modern Swifts or Voltaires. But only time will tell. If they win all the Tony's it is possible our great grandchildren won't look back on this as crude.

Two of the people behind this are the creators of Southpark.

And you thought you'd get away with nothing crude?

Gimme a break.

This is just what the mormons need. A good kick in the ass.

I love the fact that the mormons tried to get something into the mainstream for decades and they all (with the exception of Napoleon Dynamite - which had nothing to do with mormons, rather it was made by a mormon) failed big time. Remember the Book of Mormon Movie Part 1? Where did Part 2 end up? Abortion room trash can, that's where.

But this......this has hit the lottery.

There will be not a few people out there who look into the origins and history of the mormon church. That is where they will find out the full truth.

It may be juvenile but it makes me laugh.

I agree that some of the truer weirder historical stuff could habe been included.

I still squirm a little, too, at what you call crude ... or I should say my alter ego, Pollyanna Mormon Girl, still squirms. But, you know, it's just words.

Having listened to some of the songs, "the crudeness" sounds really ludicrous and out of place to me, like they were trying to get an R rating but were too sissy to really go for it. So, every once in a while, they throw in some shocking thing (like the baby and frog, WTF) that doesn't fit with the overall nicey-nice coddly job they did.

I've been wondering why Parker and Stone thought a musical about Mormonism would be good. It sounds super lame to me, and the songs only reinforced that opinion. I have zero desire to see the show.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2011 07:15PM by munchybotaz.

The spoken parts of the musical are not on iTunes. We could be missing significant themes, content, relevance, etc.

The production is getting extremely good reviews as far a theatrical piece goes. It is nearly sold out daily, and the cheapest seats I could find were $302. People are definitely seeing this show. I also don't think that people wouldn't be laughing so much if they didn't already think mormons were weird.

The frog thing I think is what the missionaries tell aids victims to have sex with INTEAD of having sex with babies. They are associating it with J.S. making shit up in his time. The missionaries make it up on the fly in one of the songs. BTW in Africa it is STILL believed that having sex with a virgin can cure aids.

Again, I like crudeness, my everyday speech is not that far off from the "crudeness" of the musical.

Well I have learned a few things here, it is always good to see things from other's perspectives. I will never like crude, just me.

I am 60, left the church 4 yrs. ago, and know nothing whatsoever of Southpark, other than I have heard it's name a couple of times. And I have heard it is crude.

So maybe I am just older than the average person viewing this, who would get more out of it than I. I do wonder what the spoken parts between the songs say. That would probably make it easier to understand some of the stuff that seems offbase.

I guess I just assumed the reason they called it the BOM Musical was because it was to be about mormonism. Now, with some of the comments here about other general subjects woven in, I wonder why they called it that? It does not seem like a title that would really draw people in.

The movie, like someone mentioned, was absolutely horrible, boring, not funny, not interesting in any way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2011 08:52PM by think4u.

It's about two missionaries ill equipped to deal with the problems of the real world, how is that not about Mormonism? I seems clear that one of the themes is the two missionaries being confronted by a crude world that does not play by their rules.

I think the main issue you are having (beyond the crude) is with expectations. To me, it seems you were expecting something else and are disappointed.

The play does seem to be about an aspect of Mormonism, just not the aspect you thought or told the way you expected.

Think if it like the story "The Wizard of Oz", that story is not really about the Wizard, but about a journey. The wizard is the plot element that holds the whole story together. I think it is the same with "The Book of Mormon"

I agree, I think my issues, other than the crude, were completely about expectations. I have learned quite a bit today, appreciate all viewpoints and perspectives. I stand corrected.

And in a way, the message was "The people are true, the Church is not". Scenes from the Book of Mormon appear throughout the show, but with narration, not songs, and performed behind a scrim. The two leads are Elder Price, a perfect Peter Priesthood with an Orlando obsession (the superficiality of which he finally realizes is the same as Mormonism). And Elder Cunningham, who lies all the time from a deep-seated inferiority complex. He is a sci-fi geek who has never really read the Book of Mormon. They are two dweeby Utards, dropped into the absolute armpit of the world, controlled by a an evil warlord, who believes women should be circumsized.

The other missionaries (basically a chorus line) all cower in their house, But Elder Price is "on fire" and goes out preaching in the village square (all-American Prophet), where the warlord kills a man right in front of him. He goes off to demand a transfer to Orlando. The daughter of the village leader, Nabulungi, believes that these "white boys"can lead her people to their paradise of "OOtah", and with Elder Price gone, Elder Cunningham has to wing it. The villagers can't relate to the BOM, it has nothing in it about AIDS or famine, or dysentery, so he throws it in to the Joseph Smith story, with heaping helpings of Sci-Fi. The Aids-cure frog coming from his imagination, and the voices reprimanding him in "You're making it up again, Arnold" are hobbits, Darth Vader, Yoda, etc.

Elder Price's conscience drives him into the "Spooky Mormon Hell Dream" (the other Elders claim to have had it too, Elder McKinley nightly). He goes back to find Elder Cunningham has converted the whole village, but the Warlord has heard of this insurrection, and is planning to crush it. Price, realizing he has been guilty of thinking too much, runs off to convert the warlord (I believe). I won't tell you what the Warlord does to Price, the visual is just too funny, and I don't want to spoil it.
The missionaries baptize the village, and sing the arrogant "We are Africa". The Mission President comes to witness this miracle, and the villagers put on a play for him The garbled story of Joseph Smit' as they learned it from Elder Cunningham.(American Moses). The visuals they use are incredible. After this outrage, the MP closes the district, and sends the missionaries home in disgrace. but Elder Price, seeing that they had united the villagers to better their lives, rallies them behind Elder Cunningham. He sees that it's the people that are important, not the church.

although Parker/Stone, use crude and outrageous language and images, they work. Those two are some of the greatest satirists we have today. They skewer the Mormon beliefs, but the people are all intrinsically good (except maybe the MP. The finale is actually a satire of the opening number, with the villagers as missionaries preaching "The Book of Arnold". In fact, I would say the entire show was a satire of the American Musical which they accomplish by making a classic American Musical. The Hasa Digi Ebowai number is a dead on satire of The Lion King, and American Moses is a satire of "The Small House of Uncle Thomas" from The King and I. It's all too subtle to call a lampoon, but it shows up the Musical Conventions for what they are.

Are some of the numbers gay. Duh--It's a MUSICAL! How can anything with dancing missionaries be anything else? You want heterosexual culture, go watch Jersey Shore.

Great review and explanations from one who has obviously seen the show, thanks so very much for that!