to build a historic site at Harmony Pennsylvania. The message started out by emphasizing how this was the location where John the Baptist and Peter, James & John restored the priesthoods. Also mentioned was the fact that 15 sections of the D&C were written there.

He then instructed us to write "Harmony Pennsylvania site" or some such on our tithing slips should we choose to donate to this worthy endeavor.

I guess the billions of annual tithing funds don't cut it.

If Only it wasn't ...for that Pesky MALL!

What a load of crock.

I'll only consider donating after TSCC opens their financial records for public inspection.

Especially since individuals are required to discuss their financials with the bishop when the individual requests church welfare assistance. Also, during tithing settlement. It should be a two-way street.

Wait, now John the Baptist, Peter, James and John hung out in Penn? Couldn't they have left directions for better chocolate?

How do you do it. Go to church I mean?

You know its not true, but how do you sit there and not shoot yourself?

I like went on Sunday and I had to leave!

I thought I was going to start speaking in tongues I was getting so angry.

Easy, when my 2-year-old daughter starts getting antsy (which happens every week) I take her out and play games with her in the hall. I'll have to work on my zoning out, or find some finger hobby when she gets older.

Sunday School's a different story. I try to zone out as best I can, but I usually get so upset that I high-tail it home afterwards and read some messages on this board (or share some of my church findings) so that I can be in a good mood again when I go back to pick them up.

That is me too...seething.

I want to blow up in style.

I am hoping to hold on till that lesson on how God is no respecter of persons...To talk about the mighty Revelation of 1978...its funny on Jan 6th I got my teaching manual, I saw that and I finally flipped.

I already knew on that day, if I stayed on long enough would be fireworks.

I play with other peoples kids! or just leave.

If I don't go I get the calls, visits, guilt trips!

A kindle comes in handy. I download "true church history" books and actually learn a thing or two during sunday school and priesthood (self study in my quorum of one ... in the foyer)

They are always asking for more money. I remember just last year they were asking for donations to construct a barbeque pavilion at one of the meeting houses. The unwritten "request" per family was $100.00 Hmmm, let see, $100.00 per family multiplied by who knows how many families in the stake, and if say 1/4 of the active families donated $100.00, holy shit, where did all the excess $$$ go? I know for a fact that many of the more affluent TBM's gave more than their share just for added "blessings."

elderborracho Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They are always asking for more money. I remember
> just last year they were asking for donations to
> construct a barbeque pavilion at one of the
> meeting houses. The unwritten "request" per family
> was $100.00 Hmmm, let see, $100.00 per family
> multiplied by who knows how many families in the
> stake, and if say 1/4 of the active families
> donated $100.00, holy shit, where did all the
> excess $$$ go? I know for a fact that many of the
> more affluent TBM's gave more than their share
> just for added "blessings."

You must be in my stake! OC, Southern California? The pavilion is very nice (I didn't donate by the way).

Nope, Littleton, Colorado! And it isn't even a stake center! Plus most of the work was done for eagle projects! Again, like I said, not sure where all the money went!

an Eagle project cannot be done for the sole benefit of the chartering organization.

or at least that's the way it is in NYC.

Flag pole, wheelchair ramp.......

And it bugged me even as an 17 yr. old scout. So much for service to the community. The Church has hijacked scouting for it's own purposes in many ways.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2011 12:02PM by badseed.

Was it for a new "steak" center?

Missionary fund, fast offerings, to be included in your will, building funds, etc., etc., et-bloody-cetera.

Thank goodness they do not waste money on paid clergy. :o/\

I knew Joseph Smith had made of some really wacky stuff, but John the Baptist and Peter, James & John restored the priesthoods?!?

How did I miss that?

So he spoke with god, Moroni, dug up gold plates, he translated said plates by hiding his head in a hat, he ran away from a bunch of guys lugging those heavy plates, plates went back to heaven, he has revelations to start up polygamy, now he meets with John the Baptist and Peter, James and John?

I knew he made up a lot of stuff, but the sheer amount of bullshit makes it impossible to understand how anybody could believe in anything that scheister had to say.

I wish there was a list of all the wacked out bullcrap he claims to have done. If anybody knows where to find the Cliff notes version of all his miraculous revelations and meetings with celestial beings, please post. I'd love a good laugh today.

Kiribati Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I knew Joseph Smith had made of some really wacky
> stuff, but John the Baptist and Peter, James &
> John restored the priesthoods?!?
>
> How did I miss that?

Yeah, he really strikes me now as someone who had to out-do everyone.

First he met God himself, and Jesus, and Elijah and Peter, James and John, and Elias, and Moroni, and I forget who else.

Reminds you of the fish tales, where every time the story is told, the fish gets bigger. Joseph just added another huge religious historical figure. "Oh, yeah, and I met John the Baptist too. Who have you met recently, you little nothing of a person? Don't you know who I am?"

Total narcissist, he was.

Apparently Joe met a lot of ancient people. Don't forget that he gave us a pretty good physical description of Paul, the apostle:

"He is about 5 foot high; very dark hair; dark complexion, dark skin; large Roman nose; sharp face; small black eyes, penetrating as eternity; round shoulders; a whining voice, except when elevated and then it almost resembles the roaring of a lion. He was a good orator."

Well he did get most of it right...

Hmmm so then here is my question and ohhhh I need to write this one down.

Would dark skinned Paul [which is true], have qualified for the priesthood seeing as ALL jews and middle easterners got black in them?

Oh snap...the more I learn, the more I am thrilled to be done with MORGdom!

What a NUT

'An aerial view shows the progress on the City Creek project in downtown Salt Lake City Thursday, May 26, 2011. Construction on the estimated

$1.5 billion

development is expected to be finished by March 22, 2012. When completed, City Creek Center will feature an estimated 800,000 square feet of shopping and dining space. The 23-acre development will include a mix of residences, retail and office space'(Deseret News May26th 2011)

I guess this is why they need the extra dosh from members...

Since when is it only $1.5 billion?

This is the net amount it will cost AFTER all the condo's etc are sold. In reality this figure is the estimated 'loss' the Church is making on the project. Inspired...

From a 2010 SLTrib Q&A session with Burton (Presiding Bishop)
Q: Is there any truth to rumors that the total price tag is nearer $3 billion than $1.5 billion?

A: Obviously construction of a new 22-acre, mixed-use development requires substantial resources. I have told the City Council that we are investing hundreds of millions of dollars. It is a private development that isn’t using public funds, and no church tithing funds are being used. While the scope of the project has increased slightly since inception, we are on budget and currently expect the net cost (note: he says net cost - the Church will lose money on this project) of the project to be very close to our original estimates.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2011 10:32AM by Stumbling.

There seems to be no shortage of these special funds. Maybe church authorities should just cut to the chase and ask for funds to complete the Great and Spacious Mall. Perhaps they could call it the "Capital Investment Building Projects Fund".

OMFG! That fucking letter was read in my ward just this past Sunday. I fiercely bit my lips and bent my head down to hide my reaction complete with rolling eyes, but TBM DH gave me an odd look.

The bishop in the carbondale ward (IL) read that letter the past two weeks. The first week in priesthood mtg and last week in SM. We received more donations for the stupid monument fund than we did for FO.

At least we know where the morg's priorities lie. Build monuments to be praised of men, let the needy fend for themselves!

wouldn't cover a historical site?

Do a little math...

28,660 wards, congregations, branches

average donation guesstimate $2000 per unit,( conservative for USA & Canada)

a cool $58,000,000

---------

building these theme parks/temples is a drop in the bucket
compared to the long term cost of maintenance and upkeep.
Wonder if they factor that in.

More like,
Take just the 11,000 plus or minus wards in the U.S. alone. $500,000/year average annual tithing donations per ward=
$5.5 Billion

FWIW, Our beloved Stake President Paternoster has provided links to the Canadian and British LDS church financials in his latest blog entry. The information is quite interesting.

Misfit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> FWIW, Our beloved Stake President Paternoster has
> provided links to the Canadian and British LDS
> church financials in his latest blog entry. The
> information is quite interesting.

got a link

The handcart tragedy comes to mind.

But even before that, I recall hearing stories of how members were expected to sacrifice to build the Nauvoo temple. In a play, they depicted the women giving up their best china so the outside of the temple would sparkle. One women complained about how she had taken such good care of her grandmother's china only to be ridiculed by the other women crushing plates. Sacrifice is supposed to be good for the soul, so it doesn't matter what resources the central church has or how they use (squander) those resources. They could have plenty but the members must sacrifice so they can be milked whenever a new project comes along.

WTF!

Oh; I get it!

this is so they can have community meals...Without inviting people inside the chapels...(Don't want the homeless INSIDE, by Golly!)

So; will new buildings include a 'BBQ Pavilion'?

Did they have a 'Special Fund' for those ugly fibreglass thingees on top of the 'PR' buildings?

WHAT A ROAR!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2011 12:43PM by guynoirprivateeye.

In our Southern California Stake, a pavilion was built on the churched-owned vacant land next door to a meetinghouse. The way it was explained to me by the Stake, the church pays taxes on any land it owns but does not use. With a pavilion, the land is now used for religious purposes, and voila! No more property taxes!
The church hired a general contractor to build the thing, yet somebody in the stake came up with the bright idea to make parts of the construction into a "service project". The members dug the footings, about a dozen five-foot deep holes, into solid clay. Coming from a construction background, I was one of the few smart ones in the elders quorum that decided not to show up for that gig. I'm in a middle-class middle-age ward, and I listened to these poor guys complain about sore backs and sore knees for weeks afterwards, because they dug those holes by hand.
Then the stake asked me to be in charge of getting more innocent victims out for the next phase-laying the gravel base down for the concrete. I was on my way out at the time, so my first impulse was to decline the unofficial calling, and say something like, "Well the members have already donated 10% of their time to this project in the form of tithing payments. They've got better things to do on a Saturday morning." But I held my breath, and went along with it.


What the church puts its members through to save a lousy buck-sheesh!

Man, I did the roof-work for the pavillion on the lot next to the stake center for my eagle project in central California. Only after this thread do I see what was going on! The church was saving itself property tax dollars by building it, saving construction costs, and getting a young scout his Eagle, thus promoting the project in a very positive light, all at the same time! I feel so used.

The funny thing is, I'm pretty sure I presented my project to the Eagle board without mentioning the fact that the pavillion was on church property. The board were not fans of mormon eagle projects, and I was the 3rd scout in my ward to get the award in 15 years. I was even closer to not getting it than I thought!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2011 01:35PM by kimball.

In the OC council, Eagle Scout service projects are not supposed to benefit the sponsoring organization. The concept of the project also has to be approved by committee before the project begins. It sounds like there in no screening process in your area to avoid that kind of thing.
You earned that award no matter who benefitted, so don't let that get you down.

Isn't that what tithing is for?????!!!!!!

The church is run by VOLUNTEERS AND they ask for 10% of everyone's money AND then they have give back to the wards the teeniest little annual budgets of like $10,000 and they are still asking for MORE MONEY?????!!!!!!

Where's all that tithing money going???!!!

Why can't they use tithing for this????!!!!

Why won't the church show us their financial statements?????!!!!!!

Talk about a CORRUPT church!!!!!!