Did anybody here attend Stake Conference in the UK today? We had President Monson hold a joint Stake Conference for everybody in the United Kingdom, which was sent via satellite or whatever from Utah. L. Tom Perry spoke before him, and in his talk, he literally said something along the lines of "a few stylistic and textual changes have been made to the Book of Mormon over time".

Did anybody else here attend. I was really shocked that he said that. It's amazing to know though, that now, EVERY active mormon in the United Kingdom knows that changes have been made to the Book of Mormon. I can't wait to see how many leave the church now. It'll be interesting to see next week at church when people discuss what he said.

I forgot to add, granted he did use the word "few", when in reality there has been hundreds of changes.

But still. He told tens of thousands of mormons today that words have been changed in the Book of Mormon.

Yeah, the sad truth is, no one will care. They do not want the truth, they want to be comfortable. And they already are.

This isn't too different from casual admissions they make all the time. Mormons, at least here in the states, are not bothered by it. They just imagine that every time a room full of editors get together to dice up the BoM, every editor is actually one of the 12, so they are getting the BoM closer to what god was "going for."

For the rational person, it does completely undermine all the work JS did on it, and the idea that there was a stream of intelligence from God to him.

True. But at least they know/have been reminded I suppose. Some people on here have said they never knew there had been changed to the BoM when they were TBMs themselves.

The original edition (printed by the CoC), with me at an LDS meeting. When they call on me to read, I will open it and read the original translation. I don't think I would be allowed to read one verse of the real word of God.

Where can I obtain one?

I think it is time for concerted group efforts to bring out the truth.

original reprint 1830 BOMs were available a short time ago. 18 months. some gomer super MORmON got all hopped up on getting back to the original and spent a lot of time & funds recreating the thing. I spotted them at the local wal mart (utah). xmas before last. My friend rushed down to pick one up and it gets jammed down TBMs throats constantly now.

The LDS breathURINE probably worked very hard behind the scenes to make sure this new printing dried up very quietly and is never done again.

I can't get to the websites right now, but I am pretty sure you can pick it up at amazon, or at the community of christ (rlds) bookstore.

here is a quick google search.

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=book+of+mormon+1830+edition+amazon&aq=1v&aqi=g1g-v1g-j1&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&fp=7b6c99266fa072e5&biw=1897&bih=897



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2011 08:47AM by rogertheshrubber.

the sheep. Give them a little taste of what they are going to find out eventually anyway so at least no one can blame the leaders for hiding truth.

Because called 3,000-4,000 changes a 'few' isn't lying, is it?

We got a talk on it a few months ago...

First, they "admit" to only the minor discrepancies, the ones that are easy to brush off or really are insignificant.

Second, they say that THOSE are the "problems" that critics are talking about, making us look like we're making mountains out of molehills.

The members take away the message that critics are trying to make small changes look big, and the church has beat them to the punch by "telling" us up front.

I must have heard that story a dozen times growing up, but I never let my mind really engage the story and follow it to its obvious conclusion.

It did cause some head scratching though.

At least I got out in the long run.

Yeah, they do that about everything, so when people figure it out later and ask, they can say, "We told you about that".

Kind of like when R. Nelson wrote in an Ensign article in 93, I believe June or July ( it is easily found on line) just one little paragraph about the stone in the hat within his entire article. So they told us. OK, like anybody got that!!! I have to wonder how many members even read the ensign, esp. cover to cover. I never did.

I remember my conversation with Tom Perry on Dec. 6th, last year, at the south town mall when I told him I had left the church because I learned it is all based on and full of lies. Hmmmm- maybe that bothered him just a bit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2011 11:20PM by think4u.

If JS didn't get the word right he couldn't move forward with the translation.

Why doesn't he provide one example of these "stylistic" changes?

Is the change from "primary" to "among" merely stylistic?

How about "white and delightsome" to "pure and delightsome"?

from "Mormon" to MORmON, this is just a little stylistic change but lets *just* go with it, somehow its a better fit in the context of what you said. Besides we are just following the example of the church by changing things to the way we want to as it suits us.

But it was the economy version and didn't come equipped with spell-check and style-suggestion functions. Plus, God knew that Joe was more comfortable with backwoods hillbilly English and God wanted to appeal to that demographic at the initial stage. God knew that the day would come when really smart editorial committees would be formed to polish it up for smarter modern Mormons.

This is all God's way of letting the world know that he wants them to upgrade from rigid faith to a new and improved faith product: Flexi-Faith (R). It has all of the authority, power and control features of old faith products, but provides authority figures with new, scientifically developed stretchy-bendy, loosy-goosy features, so that they no longer have to worry about troublesome things like consistency, outdated doctrinal pronouncements and even past prophets who were not sure whether they were supposed to worship Jehovah or Eve's husband. With Flexi-Faith, mindless cult members (or cuddly sheep, depending on your point of view), don't have to worry about comparing what the leader guys are saying today with what the leader guys said yesterday. They know that all they need is a scoop of Flexi-Faith today--because it's rigid enough to make keep them firmly in the grip of today's leaders and stretchy-bendy enough to let all of their past leaders off the hook--no matter how stupid their past pronouncements have proven to be. It's a great new product. Look for it at a Churchco outlet near you! ;o)

Flexi - faith! I LOVE that new term, because that is exactly what mo's are expected to have. Very good!

Great examples!

Maybe it already exists but an 1830 bofm app would do the trick, take that into church and read from when asked to do so. Somebody/a few would correct you and you could respond that their's must be off because you have the original.

Tom and the boys must have thought it was time for a bit more meat to be releases. Back to the skim milk tomorrow, however.

It was probably intentional. They want to control the debate by subtly letting Mormons know in the most general terms what the controversies might be but make them think that the "brethren" are fully aware of them and that they have already been addressed. They want the sheeple to think that the problems aren't really problems. Most probably went away from that conference thinking, yeah, maybe there were changes, but they were very few and only minor insignificant editorial type errors. Unfortunately, these people think the problem has already been "answered" and they'll never think about it again.

Yup; mix the truth with a few lies and you have one helluva strong believeable lie.

Normally, I would attend, but my wife had a bad back, and so sitting on the pews (or chairs in the overflow) wouldn't be comfortable for 2 hours.

Can anyone else confirm or remember the exact phrase for the 'few changes' comments?

I certainly don't doubt Nona but I was going to raise this issue with my bishop just to see his reaction.

I get on well with him (bishop that is!), and so want to ask him 'if there are actually hundreds of changes in the BofM (as confirmed by Farms/Fair), was Perry a liar or just incompetent?'

I can't find the exact quote anywhere (yet). I've looked on Google and I can't find anybody else discussing it anywhere. I checked on Facebook aswell, and apart from the usual "I felt the Spirit so strongly when President Monson and President Perry" talked, I couldn't find anything.

What I said wasn't the exact quote, but it was close to that anyway. He worded it so it didn't sound like a big deal, and I remember he did say "a few changes". I agree with what others said, I think they know people are going to find out about it eventually, so they're trying to be the first to tell everybody, so it won't be too shocking to the mormons when they actually hear what happened.

It reminds me of when President Holland mentioned Solomon Spaulding in General Conference a couple of years ago actually.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2011 11:51AM by wine country girl.

I didn't attend conference but I will be asking about the L Tom Perry comment - is it printed anywhere?

Also, I was told the conference was predominantly about 'Indexing' and using the internet to preach the gospel.
Is this an accurate description of it?

Kind of. I wasn't concentrating 100% all the way through, but they mainly focused on missionary work. They said they want to double church attendance in the Europe area, so they were giving suggestions about how to invite more less-actives back to church and get more converts.

Patrick Kearon spoke first though, and he did one of the usual "the world is becoming more and more liberal, stay conservative and true to your values" talks. And he gave a story about crabs in a bucket pulling each other down (which he related to non-mormon friends pulling each other down into sin and away from the church). He also gave a story about some guy who was a smoker and a train worker or something, and he got called on a mission and somehow instantaneously gave up smoking, which he used to tell the mormons that they can get non-mormons to change if they try hard enough.

Can't remember much of President Monson's talk, but I remember he talked about the widows, as usual. One story he gave was about these young men in his ward who were saving up for a Christmas party, but instead they decided not to be selfish and they instead cooked a Christmas meal for some of the widows in the ward.

And L. Tom Perry's talk was the one where he said about the changes to the Book of Mormon. He was basically telling the usual Joseph Smith story about the restoration, and the changes to the Book of Mormon bit came up when he came to the bit where Joseph translated the BoM. He was all like "Joseph Smith, who was a young man who had no notable education, managed to translate the Book of Mormon in one go, and only a few stylistic and textual changes have been made over time. What a miracle!".

I didn't hear anything about indexing, come to think of it, but I may simply not have been paying attention at that point.

They also said they're not going to publish the text for the conference because it's not standard practice for Stake Conferences anyway (multi-Stake conferences like this one aren't an exception to that). And also the General Authorities have been noticing on Conference weekends a lot of people don't go to church, so they think if they don't publish the text of it a few weeks later most people will go to the real thing, as that's their only chance to hear the talks I guess.

Funny how he couples the words stylistic with textual--- very, very interesting.

Stylistic means nothing at all, really.

Textual could mean they mean they went so far as to change major doctrines.

Serving the milk along with the meat there, so casually that no one really thinks about it or what it could really mean, and no one will ever go looking for changes. The mo's DON'T wanna know.

and as long as the the rank and file still think they're led by God it's all OK. Facts have no effect on those who above all want to believe.